| Liogo |
After playing a Summoner in a one shot with a Beast Eidolon, I don't think frontline Eidolons are my thing.
So now I'm considering playing either a plant eidolon or a ranged combatant eidolon. With the Plant, the eidolon can more safely hang out behind actual frontliners but still offer tripping, grappling, and occasional flanking. With a Ranged Combatant, the eidolon can only attack but from even further away with no need for the size increasing feats or spells.
I'm torn between the two, but even before we get to that, are these even good ideas to go for? How much am I missing not going for the typical melee frontline Eidolon? I don't hear too much about the Plant Eidolon so I don't know if its reach gimmick is just that, a gimmick. Same thing for Ranged Combatant, and I was looking at it in particular for the Fey Eidolon. I don't know why I'm drawn to all the primal Eidolons.
If it matters, our party hypothetical party comp atm is: Fighter, Champion, Bard, some ranged martial (it's likely between Gunslinger or archer Monk)
| Sanityfaerie |
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Plant eidolon tripper/grappler is a classic for a reason. You'll probably want to spend most or all of your class feats on evolution feats. Grab electric arc for your default caster damage, and make sure that you have heal as one of your spells. Don't be afraid to use those heals on yourself, if the situation calls for it (and let your other party members know that you might be doing that, and that they shouldn't expect you to be a major source fo heals for them). Developing the ability to use Battle Medicine on yourself might also be handy.
I've heard good things about ranged combat eidolon as well. That's one to go for if you want to put a bit more of your resources into the castery side of things, or otherwise spend class feats on things that are not "evolution feats for my eidolon". It also lets you pick a spell list that isn't primal, if that appeals to you.
In general, I'd suggest two questions to ask before you make your decision, though.
- First, talk with your GM. How many limbs does a plant eidolon have? Like, you can take a primary eidolon attack with trip, and you can add grapple to your eidolon's secondary attack... but how many enemies will that let you grapple before you run out of roots to grapple with and you can't grapple any more? As far as we've been able to determine, it's entirely GM's call, and it does have an impact on how effective a grappler your plant can be.
- Next, talk with your party. How good is the support for a plant? How useful would they find the support that the plant can give? A significant part of what the plant does is offer a particular kind fo support to other melee party members. That can either be super-valuable, or kind of not.
I am curious to hear the opinions.
I was looking into playing a buff Summoner with a small Fey Eidolon riding my shoulder but I could not see how it would work.
Small is not so doable, but if you can get them down to tiny, I think you could manage it just by having tandem movement, sharing a square, and reflavoring it as them sitting on your shoulder.
| breithauptclan |
I am curious to hear the opinions.
I think it is SuperBidi that is a big fan of the ranged Eidolon.
I was looking into playing a buff Summoner with a small Fey Eidolon riding my shoulder but I could not see how it would work.
I figure that the Mounted Combat rules apply to the Eidolon riding the Summoner just as much as they do to the Summoner riding the Eidolon. So the Summoner needs to be at least one size category larger than the Eidolon. So for a medium ancestry for the Summoner, Shrink Down should work, but for a small ancestry Miniaturize would take care of it.
And technically it is not RAW, but I don't see any good reason to not let Steed Form work to prevent action loss when the Eidolon is riding the Summoner. At the very least creating a homebrew near-clone feat that does that seems very balanced to me.
| Liogo |
- First, talk with your GM. How many limbs does a plant eidolon have? Like, you can take a primary eidolon attack with trip, and you can add grapple to your eidolon's secondary attack... but how many enemies will that let you grapple before you run out of roots to grapple with and you can't grapple any more? As far as we've been able to determine, it's entirely GM's call, and it does have an impact on how effective a grappler your plant can be.
That's a good tip that didn't occur to me. I'm almost certain my GM would just rule it like the plant was a player character. So I think that's two free hands for manual grapples and then another for the grapple unarmed attack once I get that grab feat?
The plant's main appeal to me was being able to still do all these melee eidolon things but from a safer distance. What's the better way to size up for this though? Through the permanent size up feats or the size up spells like Enlarge and Evolution Surge
On the flipside, the ranged combatant option is nice in that it doesn't need to size up, saving me the feats and/or spells. Also, your right, going ranged wouldn't lock me into primal, so I should really look into the other eidolons a bit more.
I still really like both concepts rather equally. I might just have to choose one and hope to get the opportunity to try the other another time.
| SuperBidi |
I won't talk much about the Plant Eidolon as Sanityfaerie made a good description of it. I'll just raise the fact that it is still a melee Eidolon so it may have the same issues you had with your Beast Eidolon. Also, increasing the size of your Eidolon will also increase the attention it raises. So the gain of Size doesn't mean a gain in security.
As Breithauptclan says, I really love the ranged Eidolon, but it is a very special build: It's what I call a caster Summoner as the focus of this build is much more on the Summoner than on the Eidolon. The Summoner is the one bringing the pain, through Electric Arc mostly, and its spell list and scrolls. The Eidolon becomes more of a sidekick, as Ranged Combattant doesn't deal a lot of damage but is extremely easy to use.
It's a very versatile build and it's its main strength. It is quite tough, I got down only once because my Eidolon melee attacks deal Fire damage so I decided to shut down a Troll Regeneration at level 3... The Troll turn has been a bit painful. But besides this case where I was quite aware I was taking extreme risks, I've been able to suck high damage without going down: a Lightning Bolt at level 2, I've also been the main tank/damage dealer during an adventure (I play it in a Westmarches campaign, so I sometimes end up being the highest level character of the party).
Overall, I'm super hyped about this build. I love versatility as a player and this is the most versatile build I've ever seen by a significant margin. If you want more details about it, I'll provide them with pleasure.
| SuperBidi |
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I actually wrote a guide when I started playing it. It goes a bit into tactical considerations but I think it's interesting if you have never played a Summoner. Here's the link: Guide to the Caster Summoner