Haven't built a PF1E character since 2014, attempting to build a Dex Slayer.


Advice


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Been a long time since my Mighty Godling question, glad to see awesome folks around here are still helping each other out. I tried to get some help on this build on Reddit but the fish aren't really biting. In case I forget something because I'm tired, I will link that post here.

So I will do my best to make this short and sweet:

We are starting at 5th lvl.
We have been given some equipment choices for free and 750gp to spend from.
We get to have one magic item as long as it isn't super OP or comes from the magic that is considered evil or dark magic.
After multiple failed inspiration attempts, I'm going with Slayer and my archetype is Warhound which gives me an animal companion.
My goal with that character is to have combat be about Bluffing for feints and mixing my attacks between throwing weapons and melee attacks, eventually being able to chuck a weapon at someone at the start of combat and in my same turn run after that weapon and melee attack, weaving in my Owl companion into the mix as needed.
I'm wanting to take Slayer Talents that focus on making me crit more often and crit harder once I have what I need to be able to weave together thrown weapons and melee.

I already have the character mostly built in terms of race and class as well as lore/backstory: Kichōna is a Kitsune who exclusively stays in her human form under the name of Reibecca due to societal pressure. As a Kitsune, I get +2 to Dex and Cha, and -2 to STR. With my stats being 16, 16, 15, 13, 11 and 9, that gives me 7 STR, 18 Dex, 13 Con, 16 Int, 11 Wis and an 18 in Cha with my 4th lvl ABI.

I did a lot of exchanging on the Kitsune Racial bonuses: I exchanged my natural bite attack, Agile and Kitsune Magic for Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, Prankster to get +1 to Bluff and SoH and now have SoH as a class skill, and Versatility from Earthkin variant which gives me +1 HP and Skill Rank per level up.

However, getting an animal companion as a Slayer forced me to lose out on two Class Features later and to get my Studied Feature at 2nd lvl and miss out on my first Slayer Talent. To counteract this, my GM is letting me take four traits when other get three as well as letting me trade Knowledge Dungeoneering for Handle Animal since the Warhound doesn't give the class skill. He is additionally allowing me to take Weapon Finesse Mythic over having to grab individual feats per weapon to add my Dex to dmg.

It is from here that I'm a bit lost: I already have Finesse and Finesse Mythic, but I still have a feat to pick for 3rd and 5th lvl and I have a Slayer Talent to grab for 4th lvl, and if we make it to next lvl I will have another two Slayer Talents thanks to my FCB. There are many paths to go, and originally I was thinking I would use my Slayer Talent to grab the Thrown Weapon Ranger Combat Style and then start taking feats from that, but then I found that you can get Combat Trick from Slayer Talents and that was when my brain started to melt. When you add in what the few reddit comments told me about some sort of Starknife deity and a whole chain of thrown weapon Fighter feats, I decided I needed to call in the experts.

Thus, based on me being a Slayer that combines the Studied Target with Bluffing consistently to Feint, wanting to weave together throwing weapons and melee attacks as well as my companion while getting easier and harder-hitting crits...I ask the veterans of PF1E to help me organize my feat selections, Slayer Talent pathway, what Traits work best for this as well as what weapons would work the best, including anything I could get for my owl. All I can say past that is I think the Kikko Armor works very well, the Buckler seems like the best shield choice to work into everything, and one of my traits is dedicated to Clever Mount so that my owl gets more tricks.

Thank you all in advance, I really appreciate it.


If you are trying to make a feint build you are hard stuck getting Improved Feint, Greater Feint, Combat Expertise or Dirty Trick, Skill Focus (bluff), etc.

Given how you have an animal companion it might be worth going for Feint Partner, Improved Feint Partner, Outflank, Improved Outflank, etc. Give your companion Ferocious Feint so that it can set up for you.

Might also want to consider Linnorm Hunter Style and Beastmaster Style. Which can set up some good combos.


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ForsakenM wrote:
My goal with that character is to have combat be about Bluffing for feints and mixing my attacks between throwing weapons and melee attacks, eventually being able to chuck a weapon at someone at the start of combat and in my same turn run after that weapon and melee attack, weaving in my Owl companion into the mix as needed.

That is a hard task, because the game really doesn't support that. Basically, it can't be done in one turn for most classes, and it doesn't make sense to do it, either. To be honest, I don't get what you're trying to do - the whole point of throwing a weapon is to not need to get into melee, unless the throw kills the target (which doesn't work in Pathfinder, or pretty much any game with a HP system that doesn't lean towards one-hit-kills), why would anyone chase after it into melee?

In addition, feinting requires spending an action, and is feat intense, and you're looking into combining that with something that you already don't have enough actions to do in a turn, and that is feat hungry on its own.

ForsakenM wrote:
However, getting an animal companion as a Slayer forced me to lose out on two Class Features later and to get my Studied Feature at 2nd lvl and miss out on my first Slayer Talent.

Considering that the class features are both almost useless, and that a Slayer gets more talents than there are good selections, this is a very lopsided trade not really something to lament. It shows that this is a 3rd party archetype...

ForsakenM wrote:
the few reddit comments told me about some sort of Starknife deity and a whole chain of thrown weapon Fighter feats

Divine Fighting Technique (Desna's Shooting Star) is what they were talking about, but that's strictly worse than Mythic Weapon Finesse. With "thrown weapon Fighter feats" you mean the Startoss Style suggestion? That's not actually Fighter related, but it doesn't fit what you want at all.


First off, thank you both for responding so quickly.

Temperans wrote:

If you are trying to make a feint build you are hard stuck getting Improved Feint, Greater Feint, Combat Expertise or Dirty Trick, Skill Focus (bluff), etc.

Given how you have an animal companion it might be worth going for Feint Partner, Improved Feint Partner, Outflank, Improved Outflank, etc. Give your companion Ferocious Feint so that it can set up for you.

Might also want to consider Linnorm Hunter Style and Beastmaster Style. Which can set up some good combos.

This is my third time trying to respond to this, so I will make it quick.

There are a lot of cool things you introduced to me here, but I can both grab a good share of these feats via Slayer Talents as well as having regular and Advanced Talents that compliment them heavily. I think I will stick with focusing on feint and then making my crits better, but since I have 2 feats and a Slayer Talent that can grab me some of those feats you mentioned AND I get two more Talents next level, I'm confused on what the most efficient way to select them is.


Derklord wrote:

That is a hard task, because the game really doesn't support that. Basically, it can't be done in one turn for most classes, and it doesn't make sense to do it, either. To be honest, I don't get what you're trying to do - the whole point of throwing a weapon is to not need to get into melee, unless the throw kills the target (which doesn't work in Pathfinder, or pretty much any game with a HP system that doesn't lean towards one-hit-kills), why would anyone chase after it into melee?

In addition, feinting requires spending an action, and is feat intense, and you're looking into combining that with something that you already don't have enough actions to do in a turn, and that is feat hungry on its own.

Considering that the class features are both almost useless, and that a Slayer gets more talents than there are good selections, this is a very lopsided trade not really something to lament. It shows that this is a 3rd party archetype...

Divine Fighting Technique (Desna's Shooting Star) is what they were talking about, but that's strictly worse than Mythic Weapon Finesse. With "thrown weapon Fighter feats" you mean the Startoss Style suggestion? That's not actually Fighter related, but it doesn't fit what...

My thought process was that, in situations where a fight begins at a distance, I could throw a weapon while running at them and that the weapon throw would be a feint attempt since I'm making it look like I'm running into melee range. The enemy could then already be bamboozled and now they are getting hit by my thrown weapon AND I'm in melee range for another attack with a possible follow up from my owl.

Sure, there is a level of 'rule of cool' to it, but you can't carry an infinite number of ranged weapons on you, so not only is playing a character that completely relies on thrown weapons risky but it doesn't fit my character idea either. However, I believe I may have found a Rogue Talent or something like that which allows me to make a feint with a ranged attack as long as it's within 30ft, so maybe that would be the better angle? I still think that Shot On the Run from the Ranger Fighting Style works really well, but it sounds to me like you are saying I'm asking to do too many things with what feats and talents I can get. If I understand correctly, I'm basically asking to be someone who has some mastery over not only dex fighting but also thrown weapon style and fighting around feinting my opponent while also working in an animal companion and trying to expand on my crits...and it's just too much.

I would say that I'm okay with not focusing as much on thrown weapon combat in exchange for buffing up my companion and my crits, but I would still like the option to feint someone from a distance, especially since my armor lowers my movement to 20.

Also, thank you for letting me know to not get distracted with the Shooting Star style. Thta is one less thing to worry about.


Yes what I was trying to get across was that you are trying to do to much and first figure out what exactly you want and narrow it down.

Yes, you can get a decent amount of feats with slayer talents, but the maximum amount of feats for any single class build is something like 30 from a Vigilante/Fighter, the cap for everyone else is around 15. You need to think about what you want to be able to do by what level, and curve your expectations accordingly. Feinting would require at least 2 feats (I & G Feint), ranged attacks require at least 2 feats (Point-Blank & Precise Shot), Quick Draw to get the weapons, Weapon Finesse for dex to hit. That's already 8 feats and your feint is only helping your allies.

If what you want is to throw a ranged weapon "feint" then strike in melee, then you might be better off using Opening Volley (+4 on next melee attack this turn after a ranged attack) along with Flinging Charge. Sure its not quite feinting, but it requires significantly less feat investment. But it sounds like that is not what you want.


Temperans wrote:

Yes what I was trying to get across was that you are trying to do to much and first figure out what exactly you want and narrow it down.

Yes, you can get a decent amount of feats with slayer talents, but the maximum amount of feats for any single class build is something like 30 from a Vigilante/Fighter, the cap for everyone else is around 15. You need to think about what you want to be able to do by what level, and curve your expectations accordingly. Feinting would require at least 2 feats (I & G Feint), ranged attacks require at least 2 feats (Point-Blank & Precise Shot), Quick Draw to get the weapons, Weapon Finesse for dex to hit. That's already 8 feats and your feint is only helping your allies.

If what you want is to throw a ranged weapon "feint" then strike in melee, then you might be better off using Opening Volley (+4 on next melee attack this turn after a ranged attack) along with Flinging Charge. Sure its not quite feinting, but it requires significantly less feat investment. But it sounds like that is not what you want.

Well well well, looks like there are multiple ways to flow from ranged to melee, but now I'm at the stage where I have to math how many Feint Feats there are vs how many I get over all as a character.

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