Do all magic missles do the same damage? or do you roll for each?

[thelemonache]

I didn't think I ever needed to ask this question, but this DnD 5e designer (Jeremy Crawford) tweeted something that changed that. I am aware that this isn't DnD 5e, but his words have sewn doubt in our group that we are now politely fighting over :)

so... two missles....is it 1d4+1 rolled once and dealt to all targets, or is it 1d4+1 and then 1d4+1. I'm hoping there is something concrete in the spellcasting rules that generally addresses this, opinions won't be enough to sway anyone in my group haha.

Thanks!

[AwesomenessDog]

I'm seriously trying to not laugh at anyone taking serious what someone brought in for 4e and 5e thinks related to simplification of the game to be then transferred over to a 3e derivative game. Do you roll 4d6 once and apply it to each scorching ray; do you roll 1d6 and apply it 10 times to everyone caught within your 10d6 fireball? [/snarckasm]

You assign however many missile are going to each target, then after all are declared, you roll 1d4+1 for each time a missile was targeted at someone: if you target an orc with two missiles, you roll 1d4+1d4+1+1, not 2*(1d4+1).

[Mysterious Stranger]

The fact they are spells is irrelevant. What is important is you hit the target with two separate attacks, so the damage should be determined individually. This is no different than hitting someone with two weapon-based attack. If you fire two arrows from a bow, do you do the same damage with each arrow?

I can see a GM who is trying to speed up combat occasionally using a single die to figure out damage especially in a large battle with a lot of unimportant targets. But in smaller scale combat or when PC are involved this type of thing should be avoided.

[DungeonmasterCal]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

I can see a GM who is trying to speed up combat occasionally using a single die to figure out damage especially in a large battle with a lot of unimportant targets. But in smaller scale combat or when PC are involved this type of thing should be avoided.

I've done this but only when the game begins to run too long and the final big fight takes a long time. We don't play really late as some of my players drive two and a half hours one way to show up and I'd rather shut down around 11 pm rather than have them driving him tired.

[TxSam88]

They even make special Magic Missile dice (4 sided numbered 2-5) that come in sets of 5, so you can roll 1 dice per missile.

[Ryze Kuja]

thelemonache wrote:

I didn't think I ever needed to ask this question, but this DnD 5e designer (Jeremy Crawford) tweeted something that changed that. I am aware that this isn't DnD 5e, but his words have sewn doubt in our group that we are now politely fighting over :)

so... two missles....is it 1d4+1 rolled once and dealt to all targets, or is it 1d4+1 and then 1d4+1. I'm hoping there is something concrete in the spellcasting rules that generally addresses this, opinions won't be enough to sway anyone in my group haha.

Thanks!

Each missile has its damage rolled individually.

[Senko]

TxSam88 wrote:

They even make special Magic Missile dice (4 sided numbered 2-5) that come in sets of 5, so you can roll 1 dice per missile.

Really interesting. I've always had a soft spot for the spell since the more powerful version the icewind dale pc game where you launch a wave of them filling the screen and slaughtering kobols while controlling your master at the start.

[TxSam88]

Senko wrote:

TxSam88 wrote:

They even make special Magic Missile dice (4 sided numbered 2-5) that come in sets of 5, so you can roll 1 dice per missile.

Really interesting. I've always had a soft spot for the spell since the more powerful version the icewind dale pc game where you launch a wave of them filling the screen and slaughtering kobols while controlling your master at the start.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmojoe/dice-magic-missile-dice-d4-1

[Name Violation]

thelemonache wrote:

I didn't think I ever needed to ask this question, but this DnD 5e designer (Jeremy Crawford) tweeted something that changed that. I am aware that this isn't DnD 5e, but his words have sewn doubt in our group that we are now politely fighting over :)

so... two missles....is it 1d4+1 rolled once and dealt to all targets, or is it 1d4+1 and then 1d4+1. I'm hoping there is something concrete in the spellcasting rules that generally addresses this, opinions won't be enough to sway anyone in my group haha.

Thanks!

Yet another God awful 5e ruling.

That's another nail in its coffin.
And 1 more reason 5e isn't for me

[Senko]

TxSam88 wrote:

Senko wrote:

TxSam88 wrote:

They even make special Magic Missile dice (4 sided numbered 2-5) that come in sets of 5, so you can roll 1 dice per missile.

Really interesting. I've always had a soft spot for the spell since the more powerful version the icewind dale pc game where you launch a wave of them filling the screen and slaughtering kobols while controlling your master at the start.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmojoe/dice-magic-missile-dice-d4-1

Interesting though I saw one that came in 5 different colours. I'd need to buy 5 sets for all colours but it'd mean you can assign coloured dice to specific foes e.g. blue, Red, Purple a enemy A while yellow and green are enemy B.

[Hugo Rune]

I roll separately for each missile. I also roll separately for each person hit by a fireball/lightning bolt etc even though it is the same thing dealing damage to multiple opponents.

I can see the counter argument WRT fireball etc - it is one thing so it's damage is consistent and the save simulates the character"s response to protecting themselves from the worst of it. But I have always done it with individual rolls and after 40 years am not changing now.

[TxSam88]

Hugo Rune wrote:

I roll separately for each missile. I also roll separately for each person hit by a fireball/lightning bolt etc even though it is the same thing dealing damage to multiple opponents.

I can see the counter argument WRT fireball etc - it is one thing so it's damage is consistent and the save simulates the character"s response to protecting themselves from the worst of it. But I have always done it with individual rolls and after 40 years am not changing now.

for me it's a time saver.... a fireball can hit a large number of opponents, and it sucks to roll and count 10 dice, upwards of 30-40 times

[AwesomenessDog]

TxSam88 wrote:

Hugo Rune wrote:

I roll separately for each missile. I also roll separately for each person hit by a fireball/lightning bolt etc even though it is the same thing dealing damage to multiple opponents.

I can see the counter argument WRT fireball etc - it is one thing so it's damage is consistent and the save simulates the character"s response to protecting themselves from the worst of it. But I have always done it with individual rolls and after 40 years am not changing now.

for me it's a time saver.... a fireball can hit a large number of opponents, and it sucks to roll and count 10 dice, upwards of 30-40 times

Stop packing 30-40 rats in a 20ft radius to brag about your damage numbers.

[Azothath]

J.Crawford said, Magic Missile d4 rolls 2016-09-08, so an old post. Again - this is for DnD5 which is a different system and something to compare to PF2.

In PF1 you roll each damage die. Thus for Magic Missile 1{SplLvl}@5th{CL} you roll (3)d4, and for a Fireball 3@10 your roll (10)d6s.
You just have to indicate which die goes to which target in the case of multiple targets (preferably before the roll). People may assume you are partisan if you pick after rolling.

see How to Play, Basics and scroll down to Playing the Game where it explains dice notation. Then all you need do is look at any spell description that does dice of damage such as Coin Shot:T1 or Magic Missile:K1.

If you are still confused just go to a local PFS game or the online discord server and play a game. The GM will set you straight.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Heh, I don't even do that in 5e.

[Azothath]

the main statistical argument for rolling multiple die and summing them is quite simple - it averages the dice roll producing more average numbers with less variance than multiplying a single dice roll. Over many many rolls you would see how the results vary with summed rolls making a "bell curve"(gaussian distribution) of many more rolls near the average and multiplied single rolls producing a flat average over the summed die range. The lower variance of summed rolls produces a more predictable outcome with a low occurrence of high "lucky" rolls or minimal "unlucky" rolls. This is the standard RAW method in many games (PF1, DnD1-3.5, Champions, etc).

It IS a game and your group can decide to multiply single die rolls as that is covered under the ability of a GM to modify the game. The game will be a bit more random.