so...what kind of advice do you seek here?
My guess how to build his cleric to fight with the spiked chain?
you could go cloistered cleric with fighter dedication? I guess
I just chime in to say that Zon-Kuthon is legal in PFS.
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I just chime in to say that Zon-Kuthon is legal in PFS.
What!? How?
I suppose you can benevolently bring pain to the world through your proselytising for those who desire pain, but how can you do PFS while not bringing comfort to others? More than half the scenarios are about getting people out of suffering.
How on Golarion can that level of sick insanity be considered anything but evil???
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The trouble with Warpriest comes from expectations re: "War". If you want your weapon attacks to be your primary contribution, you cannot go with any of the full casters. That full casting has a hefty cost which cannot help you cross the caster/martial gulf except in spurts (or at the lowest levels).
Warpriest doesn't gain enough offensive advantages to become a legitimate threat. Most of its perks come from its defensive advantages, making it more durable at the front than Cloistered. And part of that is due to Shield Block, which won't serve your PC with a spiked chain. And then there's the strain on one's stats; if trying to be viable in the front, it digs into one's casting or Con (which you'll need).
What some people have been able to squeak out is a character who can cast as their primary contribution and occasionally Strike (more often if using a ranged weapon, which you might as well be Cloistered with). And some use Battle Oracle for this. With spiked chain, trip is a solid option because Athletics doesn't depend on class.
So yeah, what is it you're expecting here?
From experience, it's likely it's better represented by a martial class w/ MCD Cleric, most likely Fighter if dedicated to one weapon though another class might be closer to the flavor you're aiming for. I see Paladin's an option for the other deity, Luhar, and you wouldn't be stuck with a Harm font. (Note that since Luhar only has Harm font, your PC cannot take Versatile Font.) Paladin would give you a frontline warrior w/ healing (which other options can boost if you want more).
Also consider Magus if you're going for a showy, magicky martial (especially if you want to go w/ finesse on the spiked chain because Spellstrike will make up the difference in damage).
Anyway, there are lots of direction to go, just note that "I'm an excellent caster AND I kick butt in melee" isn't an option, and it'd take a severe cut to one's casting to be functional in melee. IMO.
So I'm still relatively new to 2E, but I love rolling up characters, especially for PFS which is what I mainly play. My very first character was a cleric, and I wanted to go warpriest, but I saw a lot of people complaining about them, both here and on Reddit. So I went with cloistered cleric and play it as a healer with some fun little twists.
But damnit, I want to make a warpriest. And after GMing the bounty Shadows and Scarecrows, I had an idea. Since it's PFS, my deity choices are restricted and I can't choose Zon'kuthon. However. there's a LN deity that has the wonderful spiked chain as her favored weapon. I just have no clue where to go beyond that. I'm thinking channel smite eventually and versatile font but I'm open to suggestions.
The LN Deity you are thinking of is Luhar. Whereas Zon'kuthon is LE and that would be a very perverse game where that would be considered an option.
Spiked Chain is not so great in PF2, I personally would go with a whip if I wanted a finese trip weapon, maybe Calistria. But that concept doesn't really work in PF2.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One of the primary benefits of war priest is the medium armor let's you pump strength instead of Dex, so using a finesse based weapon kind of misses the boat. If you're gonna be two handing a weapon, you're usually better served by a d12 or reach weapon.
That impact is a felt a little less with one handed weapons because a d6 weapon with deadly isn't that much worse than a d8... But d8 to d12 is a lot to leave on the table.
Generally, I think War Priests can work better than people give them credit for, he you need to actually use your spells. Making a single attack paired with a two action spell is generally a pretty kick ass turn.
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Hmmm I guess my idea won’t play out as well as I was hoping. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.
Don't feel too bad. No build that gets posted to the advice forum is ever liked.
That doesn't stop the build from being a fun and generally effective character to play.
No build that gets posted to the advice forum is ever liked.
That doesn't stop the build from being a fun and generally effective character to play.
^ This.
So much this.
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I was originally thinking of using the bladed chain more for disarms than trips. But thinking back on all of the 1E scenarios I've played, and the few 2E scenarios I've played, it really wouldn't be useful more than 25% of the time, at most. So I'm almost certainly building a Str-based warpriest and going with a deity that has a better favored weapon.Disarm is a maneuver that doesn't really work in PF2 as it requires a Critical Success to actually disarm a foe:
Source Core Rulebook pg. 243 3.0Attack
Requirements You have at least one hand free. The target can’t be more than one size larger than you.
You try to knock something out of a creature’s grasp. Attempt an Athletics check against the target’s Reflex DC.
Critical Success You knock the item out of the target's grasp. It falls to the ground in the target's space.
Success You weaken your target's grasp on the item. Until the start of that creature's turn, attempts to Disarm the target of that item gain a +2 circumstance bonus, and the target takes a –2 circumstance penalty to attacks with the item or other checks requiring a firm grasp on the item.
Critical Failure You lose your balance and become flat-footed until the start of your next turn.
Disarm is a maneuver that doesn't really work in PF2 as it requires a Critical Success to actually disarm a foe:Source Core Rulebook pg. 243 3.0Attack
Requirements You have at least one hand free. The target can’t be more than one size larger than you.You try to knock something out of a creature’s grasp. Attempt an Athletics check against the target’s Reflex DC.
Critical Success You knock the item out of the target's grasp. It falls to the ground in the target's space.
Success You weaken your target's grasp on the item. Until the start of that creature's turn, attempts to Disarm the target of that item gain a +2 circumstance bonus, and the target takes a –2 circumstance penalty to attacks with the item or other checks requiring a firm grasp on the item.
Critical Failure You lose your balance and become flat-footed until the start of your next turn.
It'd work well enough as a debuff if not for that idiotic duration. It really should have lasted until the end of the disarmer's next turn.
It'd work well enough as a debuff if not for that idiotic duration. It really should have lasted until the end of the disarmer's next turn.Disarm is a maneuver that doesn't really work in PF2 as it requires a Critical Success to actually disarm a foe:Source Core Rulebook pg. 243 3.0Attack
Requirements You have at least one hand free. The target can’t be more than one size larger than you.You try to knock something out of a creature’s grasp. Attempt an Athletics check against the target’s Reflex DC.
Critical Success You knock the item out of the target's grasp. It falls to the ground in the target's space.
Success You weaken your target's grasp on the item. Until the start of that creature's turn, attempts to Disarm the target of that item gain a +2 circumstance bonus, and the target takes a –2 circumstance penalty to attacks with the item or other checks requiring a firm grasp on the item.
Critical Failure You lose your balance and become flat-footed until the start of your next turn.
Yeah, Disarming Flair should really have been how the feat worked in the first place.
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It'd work well enough as a debuff if not for that idiotic duration. It really should have lasted until the end of the disarmer's next turn.Disarm is a maneuver that doesn't really work in PF2 as it requires a Critical Success to actually disarm a foe:Source Core Rulebook pg. 243 3.0Attack
Requirements You have at least one hand free. The target can’t be more than one size larger than you.You try to knock something out of a creature’s grasp. Attempt an Athletics check against the target’s Reflex DC.
Critical Success You knock the item out of the target's grasp. It falls to the ground in the target's space.
Success You weaken your target's grasp on the item. Until the start of that creature's turn, attempts to Disarm the target of that item gain a +2 circumstance bonus, and the target takes a –2 circumstance penalty to attacks with the item or other checks requiring a firm grasp on the item.
Critical Failure You lose your balance and become flat-footed until the start of your next turn.
To be fair, if the debuff lasted longer, people would actually use this maneuver, and if they use this maneuver, they'll eventually roll a lucky crit, at which point the BBEG often becomes less of an active threat and more of a pinata (magical backup weapons mean more loot for PCs in higher-level encounters, so they are often not included in modules).
Disarm is just a mechanic that always tends to be either completely useless or ridiculously overpowered (sometimes in the same encounter) and I suspect developers would drop it entirely if they thought they could get away with it: The PF2 rules are probably their attempt to do just that by making it pretty much useless...
Addendum: Remember that drawing a backup weapon provokes in PF2, which is another reason developers probably want to discourage the disarm maneuver.
NPCs don't usually use appropriate level weapons anyway. PCs are the ones who really suffer if they are disarmed.
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Anything that has a weapon does have that weakness. But not everything is armed. I agree that disarming flair should have been the standard. It offers a significant tactical advantage but it's more specialized than tripping, grappling, or shoving.
As I said, 'Disarm is just a mechanic that always tends to be either completely useless or ridiculously overpowered (sometimes in the same encounter)' and it's bad for gameplay in either case...
Disarm has always been problematic and having it just not work well is probably the better option for the game as a whole.
We are definitely going off on a tangent here: My apologies to the OP.
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To the OP, I hope this doesn't turn you off Warpriest entirely. I've been playing a Warpriest in Extinction Curse for a year now. We're on Book Five and he's 15th level now, and he's been a lot of fun to play.
Now, Warpriest does tend towards the "sword & board" combat style. The fact that they're given Shield Block is a big hint there. I've gone full out with my shield; it's a Greater Sturdy Shield (L13) and I've Emblazoned it so that it's Hardness 16 and I can use it as a holy symbol for stuff like 3-Action Heals.
Most of the time I'm in the thick of it, being a flanking buddy to the party Barbarian. My damage & accuracy has been surprisingly good. I just went through Levels 13-14, when Warpriest accuracy is at its absolute worst... -3 compared to the Barbarian if I didn't use a Buff spell. What surprised me was that it didn't make a huge difference, probably because I was flanking almost all of the time. (There have been a lot of fights without enough warning to put up a Buff spell.)
On the damage side, I've gotten good use out of Align Armament, particularly since L14 when it lasts a full minute. But even in the earlier levels it was pretty decent, as focusing on a solid one Strike per round has worked out well for me. Divine Weapon hasn't been as useful, since I tend to just Raise Shield after a Spell, but there have been times when I needed to go a bit riskier and the extra damage has been welcome. In case you were wondering, I went with Cayden Caillean, so my weapon is a rapier.
I am a huge fan of Replenishment of War (L10 feat). Most rounds I will have temp HP because of it, and when combined with Shield Block it really adds up in damage reduction.
There are occasionally battles where I have to play the healbot, but Warpriest is just as good in that function as a Cloistered. Not quite as good at the Counteract stuff, but I have Channeled Succor and at-level can make a real difference there.
And I will say that I've only played one game with 5th Doctrine (Master Fortitude saves with Juggernaut) but it's already been a life saver.
If your fantasy is a cleric wading into the thick of things to battle with sword and spell, Warpriest does that quite well in my experience.