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Ranger/Slayer is nice, especially for Shield Master at 6 without prerequisites... that really helps with weapon costs when TWF. You can also use the same set of Combat Style feats for the TWF prerequisite part of Thunder & Fang, which is nice getting online as early as possible. You will need to meet the Dex requirements to pick up any of the other feats in the chain, and you will want things like Double Slice and Greater TWF and Two-Weapon Rend... playing with Bull Rush/Shield Slam is tempting, but I just don't see the feats being available. You can either start with a 13 Dex, and get a +2 belt as early as possible... or start with a 14 Dex and bump it at level 4. Either way, you can grab TWF without prerequisites at level 2, and have the 15 Dex by the time you're free to choose feats after getting Thunder & Fang online.
1. Weapon Focus Earthbreaker
2. RCS: TWF
3. Weapon Focus Klar
4. RT/Combat Trick: Thunder & Fang
5. Double Slice
6. RCS: Shield Master
7. Iron Will
The Skirnir Magus could choose a Klar as their Arcane Bond, which kind of sort of saves you the same kinds of cash as Shield Master would/might. Comes online slower, but definitely has some different options available to it as a spellcaster... quite different than your previous Fighters, I am sure. Although, you will be forced to meet the prerequisites for your feats. Maybe start TWF with Klars?
1. TWF
3. Weapon Focus Klar
5. Weapon Focus Earthbreaker
5. Thunder & Fang
7. Double Slice
Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest would be similar to the Magus, but get Weapon Focus at level 1... and gets Weapon Training, which is, well, freaking awesome.
1. Weapon Focus Klar
1. TWF
3. Weapon Focus Earthbreaker
3. Thunder & Fang
Weaponplay Ganzi Wizard can get it online by level 6 as an Eldritch Knight without multiclassing out of Wizard. Lol.
Wiard
1. TWF
3. Weapon Focus Klar
5. Weapon Focus Earthbreaker
Eldritch Knight
6. Thunder & Fang
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Armor and Shields cost half as much to enchant, and Shield Master allows your half price +5 shield (Klar) count as a +5 weapin... for half price... which is good, because you have two weapons to enchant.
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You may want to consider an Avenger Vigilante. Many vigilante talents count as multiple feats. Weapon familiarity will give you exotic weapon proficiency for Klar and give u weapon focus klar at 8th lvl( you’ll probably need to get it before then but can retrain at 8th). Signature weapon gives u weapon focus for earthbreaker and gives u weapon specialization at 8th. Shield of fury gives you improved shield bash and counts as two weapon fighting at 6th when using shield as one of your weapons and ignores prerequisites for two weapon fighting feats. You would still have your normal feats for other stuff.
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EDIT: sorry I thought the Klar was an exotic weapon but it’s only martial (was thinking of the Madu which is a similar weapon but exotic) but you could still use the Vigilante talent Combat Skill to get weapon focus Klar. If you were thinking of taking Cleave feats the vigilante talent Sweeping Strike gives you Cleave and then Great Cleave at 6th (and an additional benefit at 12th).
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I generally default to half-elf as my go-to race, since they have so many good alternate racial traits. Dual-Minded (gets a +2 to will saves) is amazing for any class without a good will save (Looking at you, Slayer). Plus, they can count as human and/or elf for feats, favored class bonuses (for human, that +1/6 slayer talent is worth its weight in gold).
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The downside of going Thunder and Klar is that you're not going to be critically striking a whole lot, but this opens up an opportunity to focus on something else, like debuffing and/or crowd control. Possibly one of the best reasons for going Human Slayer is that juicy 1/6 FCB to get a free Slayer Talent every 6 levels in addition to the free bonus Human feat at level 1, which is extremely helpful for feat-intensive builds (and Thunder & Fang is feat-intensive). Also since you're going Thunder and Fang on a class with Sneak Attack, this screams Sap Adept/Master for maximizing SnA damage.
I would go something like this:
Human Slayer - 25 pt buy
20 Str (18 + 2)
12 Dex
11 Con
12 Int
10 Wis
14 Cha
=================================
Feats:
L1: Weapon Focus (Earthbreaker), Weapon Focus (Klar)
L2: Ranger Combat Style: Two Weapon Fighting
L3: Thunder and Fang
L4: Slayer Talent (Jaguar's Grace)
L5: Dazzling Display
L6: RCS: Imp TWF, 6/6 Slayer FCB: Combat Trick: Shatter Defenses
L7: Violent Display
Violent Display: When you land a successful sneak attack or confirm a critical hit against a creature with a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can use Dazzling Display as an immediate action.
This level is when your character goes into overdrive. Now you can Shatter Defenses to force SnA when you can't Flank or Ambush, and with Violent Display, you can Dazzling Display whenever you land a SnA as an Immediate Action. You'll be a never-ending Fear Bomb machine Intimidating everything within 30 ft once every round, provided that you land at least one SnA.
Get a +1 Cruel Enchant on your weapon asap for the Shaken/Sicken combo for -4 Att/Saves/Skills/Abilchecks and -2 damage, and as an added bonus, any target you kill or drop unconscious gives you 5 Temp HP.
L8: Any Slayer Talent you want
L9: Feat: Sap Adept
L10: RCS: Greater TWF
L11: Sap Master
Now your non-lethal SnA is 6d6+6.
L12: Slayer Talent: Feat (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), 6/6 Slayer FCB: Feat: Power Attack
Now your non-lethal SnA is 10d6+10.
=========================================================
At level 12, your character is essentially fully-built. Anything you do from here is icing on the cake. You should get Boots of Speed (12,000gp) for on-demand Haste ASAP (ideally between levels 6 to 9, whenever you can afford it) because you want that extra attack per round, and Impact and Bashing enchants for your Earthbreaker and Klar respectively aren't a bad idea either. At this point, you have 7 attacks per round with Greater TWF and Haste, so that's a potential 70d6+70 damage per round just from your Sneak Attack damage, that's an average of 315 damage per round not including your weapon damage.
As soon as an enemy's non-lethal damage = their current HP, they become staggered and can only take Move or Standard actions, and once their non-lethal damage EXCEEDS their current HP, they're unconscious. The average level 12 monster has ~195 HP, so you are a knockout specialist, capable of incapacitating two targets per round if you roll well. Once the fight is over, you have the option of keeping them alive for interrogation, or simply Coups de Gracing them.
You're also an Intimidate specialist, and that Fear Bomb machine starts with your first successful SnA or Intimidating with a Dazzling Display, so Stealthing and Ambushing is important for you. I would also invest in UMD and get a Wand of Invisibility, and then a Wand of Greater Invisibility when you can afford it. Everything you're doing starts off with that first SnA, and starting combat with Invisibility active all but assures your first SnA will succeed. So if for some reason you cannot pull off an SnA in round 1, then your next best option is taking a full round action in round 1 to perform Dazzling Display to jumpstart the Fear Bomb machine, and then your first attack vs. an Intimidated target in round 2 should Shatter Defenses and now you're off to the races.
If you want to crank the Intimidation up to the next level, consider taking a Dip in Rogue Thug Archetype, and now you can cause Frightened with your Dazzling Displays. <--- Signature Skill (Intimidate) cranks this up a little more. If you really want to become a Fear Bomb, Disheartening Display causes Fear effects to increase by one step, so your Dazzling Display can cause any Frightened enemies to become Panicked instead. Round 1: Cause SnA, Dazzling Display as an Immediate, all enemies w/i 30ft are Frightened. Round 2: Cause SnA, Dazzling Display as an Immediate, all enemies w/i 30ft who are Frightened are now Panicked.
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If you want to go as a race other than human for this, that's not a problem. But I would go with a race that is one-step away from Human so you can still get the 1/6 Human FCB for a free Slayer Talent (such as Half-Orc or Half-elf). But you'll have to restructure your build just slightly.
L1: Weapon Focus (Earthbreaker),
L2: Ranger Combat Style: Two Weapon Fighting
L3: Dazzling Display
L4: Rogue Talent (Weapon Training): Weapon Focus (Klar)
L5: Thunder and Fang
L6: RCS: Imp TWF, 6/6 Slayer FCB: Combat Trick: Shatter Defenses
L7: Violent Display
L8: Slayer Talent (Jaguar's Grace)
L9: Feat: Sap Adept
L10: RCS: Greater TWF
L11: Sap Master
L12: Slayer Talent: Feat (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), 6/6 Slayer FCB: Feat: Power Attack
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Ryze has the right of it if you want to fully focus on those two weapons and use Slayer to the best of its capacity to pull it off. I'd caution NOT investing so heavily into one kind of fighting style, but that is just personal preference coming into play. I tend to use Ranger fighting styles (and Slayer talents that pick it up) to focus on an alternate style that I don't have to meet the requirements for. For me, that it typically picking up ranged capabilities (like precise shot). I tend to play switch hitters when I go with a martial build.
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This was a Slayer build that I helped someone with a month-ish ago, and he was 2handing an Earthbreaker. This guy went human and took Focused Study for his alternate Human racial so he could get Skill Focus Intimidate and Skill Focus Stealth, and he took a dip in Thug at level 7. That's round 1: AoE Frighten, round 2: AoE Panicked. With Fast Stealth and Haste, dude can move 60ft as a Move Action while Stealthed. And he can stealth mid-combat even while actively viewed with Hellcat Stealth, and with Hellcat Pounce he can get 2 attacks during a surprise round. Instead of 7 attacks per round at level 11 like this Thunder and Fang build, he had 4 attacks per round at level 12. Absolutely monstrous tbh tho.
The Thunder and Fang build will deal considerably more damage, but this build below is considerably better at Ambushing and causing Panicked.
L1Slayer1: Skill Focus (Intimidate), Enforcer
L2S2: Ranger Combat Style: Menacing (Dazzling Display)
L3S3: Sap Adept
L4S4: Slayer Talent (Jaguar's Grace)
L5S5: Weapon Focus (Earthbreaker)
L6S6: Menacing (Shatter Defenses), 6/6 Slayer FCB: Combat Trick: Violent Display
L7Thug1: Disheartening Display
L8Slayer7: Skill Focus (Stealth)
L9S8: Feat: Sap Master, Rogue Talent: Fast Stealth
L10S9:
L11S10: Feat: Hellcat Stealth, Rogue Talent: (Underhanded)
L12S11:
L13S12: Feat: Hellcat Pounce, Slayer Talent: Feat (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), 6/6 Slayer FCB: Feat: Power Attack
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Ryze has the right of it if you want to fully focus on those two weapons and use Slayer to the best of its capacity to pull it off. I'd caution NOT investing so heavily into one kind of fighting style, but that is just personal preference coming into play. I tend to use Ranger fighting styles (and Slayer talents that pick it up) to focus on an alternate style that I don't have to meet the requirements for. For me, that it typically picking up ranged capabilities (like precise shot). I tend to play switch hitters when I go with a martial build.
I agree, it is a little risky to be a one-trick pony. There are times where your melee-only build will be worthless, like when you need to be able to shoot a flying monster, or shoot goblins across a ravine or on high ground. So if you're going to dedicate yourself solely to Thunder and Fang, then you should plan on making yourself effective in these situations that negate what you're good at doing.
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A switch hitter that still uses Thunder & Fang? You will want the Lyrune-Quah klar, as it allows you to use a shortbow and still benefit from the klar's AC bonus. Kinda neat.
Although, I do prefer Storval's Thunder & Fang for these builds... the electricity/sonic damages are fun, but the knockback/prone effect is where it's at. I like the way the DC's go up when used together.
If you can use this campaign trait, it gives you a +1 bonus to confirm crits with both Earthbreakers and Klars... which goes really well with the crit effects of Storval's Thunder & Fang.
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Half-Elf with Weapon Familiarity using an Elven Curve Blade and a Longbow:
1. Weapon Finesse
2. RCS: Rapid Shot
3. Quickdraw
4.
5.
6. RCS: Manyshot
Half-Orc with Sacred Tattoos, Shaman's Apprentice, and Fate's Favored using a Falchion/Greatsword and a HornBow:
1.
2. RCS: Rapid Shot
3. Quickdraw
4.
5.
6. RCS: Manyshot
That/those get you there using the Ranger Combat Style feats to grab your archery stuffs. Both are non-human, but have access to the Human FCB. You don't have to worry about Quickdraw until after you have some melee and some archery feats to warrant switching weapons in the middle of combat. I do not particularly like these types of builds, but I have seen they can be made to work. I appreciate the effort to not be a one trick pony, but most switch hitter builds I have experienced are spread too thin to really be effective at either.
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The thing using a Fighter is that you have to meet the prerequisites of your feats... which means a 15 Dexterity for TWF, and a 15 Strength for Thunder & Fang. The Viking archetype tempts you to play with Intimidate, which would then require an investment in whatever mental stat you happen to have Intimidate keyed off of. The temptation to play with Rage Powers competes with you combat feats. I think it's a mess, honestly, and Ryze's first Slayer build would be a far better return on an investment in Intimidate.
Slayer at least has Sneak Attack that can be triggered by things like Shatter Defenses pretty reliably. I believe it ia a better chassis to build off of.
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Sorry have yet another question and I rather not make another thread as It pertains To thunder and Fang.
I know I said I'm Tired of fighters but would building A Fighter Viking Be Any where near effective .
I think you don't understand the issues pertaining switch hitters.
• Unless you go for a thrown build, you need to enchant multiple weapons. If you want to do TWF, that number increases to three, meaning you're really behind on the enhancement bonus (which not only means lower attack and damage roll bonus but also less DR penetration).
• You only get half value from feats like Power Attack or Rapid Shot. Thunder and Fang is four feats just on your melee side, that's a pretty high investment.
• Unless you can get the same stat for both types of attack roll, you will have notably reduced attack roll for one or both modes. There are multiple options to do that (Weapon Finesse, the Divine Fighting Technique Desna's Shooting Star, the Sanguine Angel prestige class, and Lesser Belt of Mighty Hurling are what I can think of on the spot), but they all have their downsides, and none of them work with Thunder and Fang.
• You need to be able to quickly switch modes, which almost always requires Quick Draw.
• In general, a switch hitter without class feature providing a bonus to attack and damage rolls that affects both combat styles doesn't work out. Fighter, with its focus on different weapon groups and providing numerical bonuses via feats, doesn't do that. Viking Fighter especially would have zero attack or damage roll bonus to archery attacks. Throwing would profit from Rage, but would take two more feats unelss you want to throw non-magical weapons.
Ultimately, the biggest issue with switch hitter Fighters using a bow for ranged combat is that the Point Blank Master feat makes it utterly, 100% redundant. Dito for any other class with access to that feat, e.g. Warpriest. Building for flavor is one thing, but at some point your character bekomes a joke - remember, you aren't alone, you're a member of an adventuring party.
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Tbh, I think you should go with the Thunder and Fang build and without investing any feats in "Switch Hitting" until probably level 13-ish, but you should figure out a way to fly by level 5-6ish, like a Flying Carpet or something, that way your melee isn't negated by flying creatures, or creatures on high ground or across ravines. But since you're a Half-orc, you should still pack a Hornbow around just in case, but I wouldn't invest more than that during levels 1-12 because you can simply fly to your enemies.
You should also have a response to Swarms because your weapons are essentially useless vs. swarms, but you can deal with this pretty cheaply. Alchemist's Fire, Acid Flask, or even Lamp Oil can work in a pinch. Swarms of Tiny creatures take half damage from slashing/piercing, and full damage from bludgeoning, but Fine and Diminutive swarms are simply immune to all weapon damage, and a Swarmbane Clasp will not only let you deal your full weapon damage but make you immune to their Distraction ability. If your GM is notorious for using swarms, or if you just happen to know that you'll be fighting a lot of Swarms in a particular campaign, you should probably invest in a Swarmbane Clasp for 3,000gp. If not, then just get an Alch Fire and an Acid Flask and there's your swarm defense.
Tbh, I think you should go with the Thunder and Fang build and without investing any feats in "Switch Hitting" until probably level 13-ish, but you should figure out a way to fly by level 5-6ish, like a Flying Carpet or something, that way your melee isn't negated by flying creatures, or creatures on high ground or across ravines. But since you're a Half-orc, you should still pack a Hornbow around just in case, but I wouldn't invest more than that during levels 1-12 because you can simply fly to your enemies.
You should also have a response to Swarms because your weapons are essentially useless vs. swarms, but you can deal with this pretty cheaply. Alchemist's Fire, Acid Flask, or even Lamp Oil can work in a pinch. Swarms of Tiny creatures take half damage from slashing/piercing, and full damage from bludgeoning, but Fine and Diminutive swarms are simply immune to all weapon damage, and a Swarmbane Clasp will not only let you deal your full weapon damage but make you immune to their Distraction ability. If your GM is notorious for using swarms, or if you just happen to know that you'll be fighting a lot of Swarms in a particular campaign, you should probably invest in a Swarmbane Clasp for 3,000gp. If not, then just get an Alch Fire and an Acid Flask and there's your swarm defense.
Ya any idea what my intimidate should look like at level 7?
Trying to figure out any way to boost it a bit
It should be:
3ClassSkill + 2Cha + 7SkillRanks + 2Half-OrcRacial = +14 to Intimidate
The DC to demoralize a creature is 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. So if you're fighting equal-level creatures, the DC to beat will be 17 + whatever their Wisdom Mod is. Even if a creature has a really high Wis Mod of 4, that's a DC of 21, which means you'll successfully Demoralize a high-Wis equal level creature with a roll of 7 or higher. Not too shabby.
To be honest, since you're going for Thunder and Fang and this is an extremely expensive investment, so I would focus on just landing your Demoralize to Shaken so that you can immediately Shatter Defenses with your first attack anytime you change your target, rather than pumping your Intimidation to ridiculous levels for defeating their Demoralize DC by 10+ to cause Frighten or Panicked. If you weren't going Thunder and Fang, you would have the feats to really crank up Intimidate at lower levels with Skill Focus, Signature Skill, Disheartening Display, and Intimidating Prowess, and doing so would all but ensure your Intimidates defeat the DC by 10+, if not 15+ or even 20+ sometimes, and you would get a lot of mileage from your Intimidates throughout the entire mid-game. Intimidation builds are only going to work vs. creatures that aren't immune to fear, and there are a lot of things that are immune to fear once you're in the late game level 15+, so going into these feats after level 12 isn't a waste, but it makes you a late-game "minion-killer", not a BBEG killer. There's nothing wrong with Minion-killing though, it can prevent your party from getting swarmed or surrounded.
Tbh, I would consider going into Imp/Gr Dirty Trick and Quick Dirty Trick-->Dirty Trick Master post level 12, because then you can Blind and Nauseate, which are two conditions that are absolutely devastating and not a lot of creatures are immune to these. And! If you face a creature that is immune to fear, then you can Blind them to force your SnA rather than using Shatter Defenses. Having Flank, Shatter Defenses, and Blind to force SnA's makes your SnA damage much more reliable. If for some reason you face a creature that is immune to fear and blind, then nauseate them. If they're also immune to nauseate, then fine, flank it and kill it quickly, or let your party kill it while you focus on something else.
Tbh, the only item I would get to help this would be a Headband of Mental Prowess with whatever +2, +4, or +6 you can afford for boosting Int and Cha.
You could get a Circlet of Persuasion or Ring of Eloquence if you're finding out that you're not landing as many Intimidate checks as you'd like. But as for your Head slot, I would think you'd get more mileage out of a Hat of Disguise or Greater Hat of Disguise, which can help you get Surprise rounds for your party (and that juicy SnA to start combat). Your first SnA starts the whole machine, and Action Economy is the most precious resource in the game, so giving your party Surprise Rounds is the bee's knees.