So... feelsgood and feelsbad are a thing, that go well beyond whether or not something is balanced. Sometimes, it comes from balance, but sometimes it does not. This place is for discussion of the second kind. We're trying to look for suggestions that would make the class feel better and better enable specific character ideas without really mucking about with power levels.
My contribution: Elemental Tuning. Available only to singe-element kineticists. 1st-level feat. Pick a damage type, from a long but not entirely exhaustive list. Your elemental blast now does that damage type. You may also choose to deal that damage type with any other impulses that you have that would otherwise deal physical damage.
Simple, straightforward, should be fairly well balanced as long as you don't put things like "force" on the list of available damage types, and provides a very solid answer for the players who, for example, really want to play a kineticist that focuses obsessively on acid damage or whatever. Possibly have a level 8 or so follow-on feat that offers a degree of resistance penetration for that damage type.
...and if someone wants to throw around lightning damage as an earth kineticist? Who cares? Maybe they have some wacky reason that it makes sense in their head, and being able to play out this very specific fantasy is the Best Thing Ever as far as they're concerned. Maybe they're just being weird because they want to be weird. Regardless, it's not going to break anything, so you might as well let it ride. Also, it preserves the space for elemental combos that aren't quite as strange, but still might be up for debate. (Lightning could arguably be water, air, or even fire. Cold could easily be water or air, and possibly earth. Acid could be water or earth... and so forth).
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Improved action economy as you level. Like, really improved action economy. at 7 you get a special "reload" action depending on your type of gate.
Single element: When you recharge, you get a hefty damage boost to your next damaging impulse (Auras excluded, Only applies to the initial damage). Basically, Stoke element + recharge with no restriction.
Double Element: Cycling blast but without the need of having an element recharged. You need to use a different element from the last element you used in the previous or current turn.
Universal: Gather amalgamation but simpler. Still 2 actions. All 4 charges can be used for any elements, but you cannot spend them for an element you have already used. You can use all blasts freely during it, regular Impulses use 1 charge, overflow impulses use 2.
At level 13 or 15, they need a sort of Flawless element that also applies to 2 action impulses. I would make it so it applies just to the first impulse used per turn.
Action economy at mid and high levels is atrocious. I know this sounds like a lot, but I believe this is how far behind they are in this regard, let alone damage, which is another problem for another day, I guess.
Action economy at mid and high levels is atrocious. I know this sounds like a lot, but I believe this is how far behind they are in this regard, let alone damage, which is another problem for another day, I guess.
You have missed the point of this thread entirely. This is explicitly not about balance adjustments. I have confidence that Paizo has that covered, one way or another. They don't need the help of this humble thread. This s about ways to make things cooler or reduce suck or just generally make the class more fun to play without changing the balance in any meaningful way.
I've got another. One of the things that I noticed was that the elemental blast-side feats all seem... really, really bland. It's just "attack a few more times" or "cheat MAP a bit" and similar. It's all very mathy and not particularly interesting, and doesn't really have anything to do with the elements involved at all. So why not fix that? The kineticist is an opportunity to justify weapon attack feats that do some really wacky things. Ranged attack with an attached grab using earth. Air blast with extra knockback, and so forth. Basically, run the kineticist equivalent of things like Dragging Strike and Combat Grab, with some of these feats being element-specific. Give the elemental blast side of things a few more interesting toys to play with (balanced appropriately, of course - whatever it is that that means).
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Action economy at mid and high levels is atrocious. I know this sounds like a lot, but I believe this is how far behind they are in this regard, let alone damage, which is another problem for another day, I guess.You have missed the point of this thread entirely. This is explicitly not about balance adjustments. I have confidence that Paizo has that covered, one way or another. They don't need the help of this humble thread. This s about ways to make things cooler or reduce suck or just generally make the class more fun to play without changing the balance in any meaningful way.
I've got another. One of the things that I noticed was that the elemental blast-side feats all seem... really, really bland. It's just "attack a few more times" or "cheat MAP a bit" and similar. It's all very mathy and not particularly interesting, and doesn't really have anything to do with the elements involved at all. So why not fix that? The kineticist is an opportunity to justify weapon attack feats that do some really wacky things. Ranged attack with an attached grab using earth. Air blast with extra knockback, and so forth. Basically, run the kineticist equivalent of things like Dragging Strike and Combat Grab, with some of these feats being element-specific. Give the elemental blast side of things a few more interesting toys to play with (balanced appropriately, of course - whatever it is that that means).
Having bad damage is whatever, but having bad action economy at mid and hig levels feels horrible. I'm just adding possible solutions to something that feels bad, don't see how I'm missing the point. They can balance the class to have great damage as it is and it would still feel terrible.
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The best thing that I can think of that would make a BIG impact is to, and I hate to beat a dead horse, rework the Elemental Blast (the basic one) as a basic Strike you can make instead of having it remain as an isolated specific Action that cannot be used with any other abilities such as Double Slice, Power Attack, Spellstrike and other abilities that call for the PC to make a Strike as part of that Activity.
This alone would open up the possibilities to combine the Class with the dozens of interesting Archetypes that have already been published and gives them more flexibility in their routine versus the current rather stale Gather Element > Stride > Blast -Next Turn- Overflow Feat > Stride > Gather Element cycle they're basically stuck with at the moment.
I'm not sure if I support a single feat tax to make the only detriment dedicated gate is supposed to have... Go away.
Easier to overcome sure. But not ignore.
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I'm not sure if I support a single feat tax to make the only detriment dedicated gate is supposed to have... Go away.
Easier to overcome sure. But not ignore.
The primary detriments dedicated gate has:
- You only get access to one element's worth of options- You only have one weapon profile
- You only get one element's worth of things like adapt element, utility uses of gather, and so forth.
That's a pretty significant set, there.
Further, the proposed damage conversion was, for the most part, only for physical damage, which generally isn't resisted as much anyway.
I anything, it was mostly a ribbon power.
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I think the Kineticist *feels* really good. I look at the flavour of the class and the actions it can do, and it makes me happy. Paizo nailed that. But for every win in the flavour column, there's a failure in the mechanics department. My group is having second thoughts about playtesting the class because the mechanical problems are so glaring. It feels like the playtest package needs an update to get the obvious-problems out of the way, so that we can comment on the non-obvious ones.
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I think the Kineticist *feels* really good. I look at the flavour of the class and the actions it can do, and it makes me happy. Paizo nailed that. But for every win in the flavour column, there's a failure in the mechanics department. My group is having second thoughts about playtesting the class because the mechanical problems are so glaring. It feels like the playtest package needs an update to get the obvious-problems out of the way, so that we can comment on the non-obvious ones.
yeah i feel like it is so easy to see the bad damage, the struggles of a str build without reaching outside the class for med armor, and the clunky action economy for a low reward that any more subtle problems there might be are getting lost in the fog, as it i feel like the ideas are good and the numbers are not, but i would have to play with a version that has good numbers to really sus that out