An issue with Golems


Kineticist Class


I'm trying to figure out how Kineticist abilities interact with Golem Antimagic. Any help is much appreciated.

My issue is, that impulses are descirbed like this:

"Impulses are magical, but they aren't spells. However abilities that restrict you from casting spells or protect against spells (such as globe of invulnerability or a creatures bonus to saves against spells) also apply to impulses"

And golem antimagic is includes this explanation:

"A golem is immune to spells and magical abilities other than its own, but each type of golem is affected by a few types of magic in special ways."

So as far as I can tell, a Golem will be immune to Kineticist impulses, unless there's a correspondance between the harm/slow/heal entries of the specific golem's antimagic and the trait of the impulse in question.

First question: Am I getting this right? That a class that feels very focused on blasting can be rendered useless against a certain creature type?

And second: do you think this is intentional, or is it an oversigt? (Kineticists are given a way to combat elementals tied to their own element, but not to combat golems?)


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

1st- Yes and no. Gols are meant to be thr bane of casters. All pure spellcasters hate them, exspecially whem they fail thier RK to find out the bypass element/spell. A Kineticist can also fight with elemental weapon feat (1st) can fight a golem. It lets you Strike with gathered energy and it isn't an impulse traited feat, so no spell invulnerability

2nd - Not an oversight IMO


I didn't even think of Golems.

Damn...that'll be rough.


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Keraki wrote:

1st- Yes and no. Gols are meant to be thr bane of casters. All pure spellcasters hate them, exspecially whem they fail thier RK to find out the bypass element/spell. A Kineticist can also fight with elemental weapon feat (1st) can fight a golem. It lets you Strike with gathered energy and it isn't an impulse traited feat, so no spell invulnerability

2nd - Not an oversight IMO

so unless you took one specific feat, kineticists should just stand there and do nothing if fighting a golem? Spell casters can still cast buffs or control options that don't directly effect the golem, but kineticists might be able to do that for a round or two before they are useless. A spell caster can also just have different damage types, but direct gate and to a lesser extent dual gate kineticists are just screwed on that front. Imagine if all oozes had an ability that said " this creature is immune to all damage and abilities done by a rouge. That's really punishing, and in general bad game design.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Yes, this could be a big issue. I guess this is another reason why elemental weapon might be worth having around, since that would just be a weapon attack.

I also think the extent of this issue would be pretty GM dependent on whether they let a kineticist extract Element from the Golem that felt like it fit (earth with clay and stone, etc). Fire kineticists are just going to be in a bad spot regardless though except against Ice elementals.


Unicore wrote:

Yes, this could be a big issue. I guess this is another reason why elemental weapon might be worth having around, since that would just be a weapon attack.

I also think the extent of this issue would be pretty GM dependent on whether they let a kineticist extract Element from the Golem that felt like it fit (earth with clay and stone, etc). Fire kineticists are just going to be in a bad spot regardless though except against Ice elementals.

Wouldn't the Golem be immune to Extract Element? It has the Primal tag to it's magical.

Liberty's Edge

Golem: *exists ...*

Kinetecist: ...


Guntermench wrote:
Unicore wrote:

Yes, this could be a big issue. I guess this is another reason why elemental weapon might be worth having around, since that would just be a weapon attack.

I also think the extent of this issue would be pretty GM dependent on whether they let a kineticist extract Element from the Golem that felt like it fit (earth with clay and stone, etc). Fire kineticists are just going to be in a bad spot regardless though except against Ice elementals.

Wouldn't the Golem be immune to Extract Element? It has the Primal tag to it's magical.

I actually assumed they were immune to that as well.


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Pronate11 wrote:
Keraki wrote:

1st- Yes and no. Gols are meant to be thr bane of casters. All pure spellcasters hate them, exspecially whem they fail thier RK to find out the bypass element/spell. A Kineticist can also fight with elemental weapon feat (1st) can fight a golem. It lets you Strike with gathered energy and it isn't an impulse traited feat, so no spell invulnerability

2nd - Not an oversight IMO

so unless you took one specific feat, kineticists should just stand there and do nothing if fighting a golem? Spell casters can still cast buffs or control options that don't directly effect the golem, but kineticists might be able to do that for a round or two before they are useless. A spell caster can also just have different damage types, but direct gate and to a lesser extent dual gate kineticists are just screwed on that front. Imagine if all oozes had an ability that said " this creature is immune to all damage and abilities done by a rouge. That's really punishing, and in general bad game design.

Depending on the Golem in question even Omnigate kineticists would have a rough time without the feat.

For instance

Adamantine Golem is healed by fire, damaged by acid and slowed by electricity.

Not really an easy way for any element to be hugely impactful without soecific feats.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Keraki wrote:
Gols are meant to be thr bane of casters. All pure spellcasters hate them

I mean, yes and no.

The thing about golems and casters is that they can really suck, but part of the idea is also that casters can do something else. Arcane and Primal casters can often switch damage types to try to trigger weakness. Casters of all stripes can lean on utility and support spells that simply don't care about golem antimagic at all.

Kineticists don't have a toolbox like that though. If you're up against a golem who's not weak to your element type or eligible for Extract Element, that's it. You simply do not get to participate that combat.

That makes them uniquely problematic for the kineticist in a way that isn't true of other characters.


How to fight Golens with casters:

1. RK, and asks to everyone to try.
2. If you identify as an Adamantine Golem and you can't cast disjunction or lvl 9 dispel magic. Just run for your life! If you can, save a slot for it. If you Identify as another type of Golem just attack their magical weakness/vulnerability.
3. If you and your party failed to identify just start to try to support or to try to find a cantrip that works.
4. If you are unable to damage with all your available damage types and can't support just sit somewhere, pull some snacks and watch the fight!

The case of Kineticist falls somewhere between just sit for Dedicated Gate, try some other energy type for dual and universalist and run if is an Adamantine Golem.

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