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Have to give the Ki Blast nod to Cloistered Clerics over Oracles since Ki Blast is Wis-based*. It takes the Cleric more investment, but it's also getting the bigger payoff. A few points difference in DC makes a notable percent difference in damage.
*Must admit I've built a low-Cha Oracle w/ Wisdom as their highest stat simply for Ki Blast so there's that. It'd rely on Magic Missiles (via Nethys) so it's a fringe build, but it can also start the Monk MCD earlier (since stats are available) which opens up defensive Stances, Resilience, etc. (I suppose it wouldn't be so fringe in a Free Archetype game.)
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In the last hour you've been flatly wrong but never unsure about the basics of how an investigar and alchemist ability work. Perhaps take a step back and rethink this line of thinking.
I made a mistake about the Investigator and recognized it when you pointed it out. I made a typo about the Alchemist but the line of reasoning is the proper one.
Thanks for the personal attack by the way.In my first post on my topic pointed out that the wording of Ranged Spellstrike specifically limits the the spell effects to one range increment of the weapon. That makes it different from Eldritch Shot which is only limited by the maximum range of the weapon.
Ranged Spellstrike states: "You can deliver the spell even if its range is shorter than the range increment of your ranged attack."
The line that you (not you specifically but all those who defend your point of view) are suggesting is not necessary. So why is it there then? And why would it be unnecessary for Eldritch Shot?
Just for the point of comparison, I've made these graphs comparing a Shortbow and Greatsword Fighter making 2 attacks to all the amped cantrips the Psychic can get (with the Shadow Signet against Moderate saves for all but Phase Bolt).
The melee cantrips are way weaker (but Imaginary Weapon can hit 2 opponents so it's a bit harder to judge). The ranged cantrips are quite close to the Shortbow Fighter (even if the Fighter has accessible ways of increasing it's damage and action economy).
Phase Bolt is competitive before the Shadow Signet kicks in, after that it drops (using the Shadow Signet reduce the chances to hit as you no more benefit from the Flat-Footed reduction of AC).
I've made the same graphs with Unleashed Psyche. Ranged cantrips are now more than competitive against the Shortbow Fighter (save from Phase Bolt at high level which is at least nearly equivalent to the Shortbow attacks). Melee cantrips are still behind the Greatsword Fighter but quite close to it now.
I feel that the Psychic attacks are balanced around Unleash Psyche. But as it has only 2 Focus Points before level 18 it's hard to get a proper use of all these cantrips during Unleash Psyche as it means you don't use a single Focus Point outside the 2 offensive cantrips you cast while your psyche is unleashed...
I made a mistake in the graphs above. I used Shadow Signet but it's a metamagic ability so it doesn't work with Amped cantrips. I'll make the graphs again when I'll find the time.
I've also looked at what Electric Arc would be doing with the +2 damage bonus from Unleashed Psyche and... It does 75-80% of the damage of an Amped Telekinetic Projectile, but it affects 2 enemies and doesn't ask for a Focus Point.
I was expecting the amped cantrips to change the balance, but it's still super interesting to grab Electric Arc as a Psychic spell (so through Ancestry feats only).
As a side note, True Striked Amped Telekinetic Projectile does twice the damage of Electric Arc when Unleashed. So Amped cantrips still have their use, just a limited one.
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In fact, the more I read the Psychic and the more I think I was wrongly reading the class.
I was expecting some kind of cantrip/focus spell based class. But it's not, it's a cantrip/focus spell heavy class, but it's first and foremost a full caster.
When I read it with a full caster state of mind, like grabbing Electric Arc the same way I grab it on any Occult caster, it becomes a much more interesting class. It has a lot of abilities, after all. It seems like a very complex class to master, in fact. Finding the right balance between slotted spells and cantrips, knowing when to Unleash, neither too early neither too late, switching from damage dealer to debuffer depending on the fight.
It's funny because I was looking for some combo between the amps and the Psyche abilities and such. And I was finding the class weak. Now that I just look at it like a big swiss army knife, I'm starting to consider it can be quite strong.
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Gorilla Stance.
- Not finesse
- encourages grappling.
- It's a stance, so it interferes with the most readily available monk ways of handling high-str, low-dex builds.
- Does not require unarmored, so the most readily available ways for everyone else to handle high-str, low-dex are doing just fine.
- The expansion feat is a flourish, and thus competes directly with FoB. It's also charisma-based. You can build worthwhile cha-monks, but it's another bit to struggle with.
As a monk stance, it's a bit of a struggle to make it functional. As a three-feat Martial Artist dip for a thaumaturge, it's simple and straightforward and works just fine with no additional effort at all.
Oww! I never noticed this before Gorile Stance doesn't require unarmored! And looking better many monk's stances from APG don't requires unarmored!
So I noticed that's make the Rogue with a Monk dedication using Stumbling Stance is very interesting. A d8 unarmed agile, backstabber, finesse, nonlethal can work fantastically well for rogues once there aren't 1H weapons so good. Also the +1 circumstance bonus to Deception checks to Feint is a good help too when flanking isn't an option, Monk's Flurry also give a very good action economy helping the rogue to be very efficient while reposition an attack and allow the excellent step, Flurry, step move and Stumbling Feint can finish the combo very well giving a free feint check.
I always wanted a good rogue-monk combination once I always think that unarmed attack and stealth/disguise and a good precision damage are a very well combination.
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Conceal spell and silent spell are two fantastic feats of GMs play where people are general skeptical of having casters cast who knows what spell around them. Need to detect magic in a market place? Need to cast message during a dinner party? Need to cast an illusion ever?
Many GMs hand wave the weirdness of casting spells and not having everyone react like the wizard might be mind controlling you.
Silent spell is additionally useful if you ever want to be able to scout and cast spells. You really can’t stand in front of a door and start casting spells in PF2 and not expect people on the other side to hear you.
But these feats are as valuable for the wizard as for every other casting class.
I for one really enjoy using these feats on Sorcerers and other charisma-based casters, who can more easily leverage their high bluff and stealth checks.
I for one really enjoy using these feats on Sorcerers and other charisma-based casters, who can more easily leverage their high bluff and stealth checks.Conceal spell and silent spell are two fantastic feats of GMs play where people are general skeptical of having casters cast who knows what spell around them. Need to detect magic in a market place? Need to cast message during a dinner party? Need to cast an illusion ever?
Many GMs hand wave the weirdness of casting spells and not having everyone react like the wizard might be mind controlling you.
Silent spell is additionally useful if you ever want to be able to scout and cast spells. You really can’t stand in front of a door and start casting spells in PF2 and not expect people on the other side to hear you.
But these feats are as valuable for the wizard as for every other casting class.
I find it too impractical as a wizard not to boost Charisma. There are just too many fun spells that aren't fun if you aren't good at selling it afterwards.
That said, silent spell basically gives you a way out of having to worry that much about Cha, and focusing on just Dex and INT, but still being good at casting spells stealthily.
If a Bard learns Silent Spell, could they still cast their Composition spells? Would it make the spell itself silent, or would people just not know where the spell effect's sounds are coming from?
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If a Bard learns Silent Spell, could they still cast their Composition spells? Would it make the spell itself silent, or would people just not know where the spell effect's sounds are coming from?
Despite its name, Silent Spell does not effect the spell itself; it only conceals the verbal components and the magical manifestations that often precede a spell.
If a Bard learns Silent Spell, could they still cast their Composition spells? Would it make the spell itself silent, or would people just not know where the spell effect's sounds are coming from?Despite its name, Silent Spell does not effect the spell itself; it only conceals the verbal components and the magical manifestations that often precede a spell.
The Bard composition spells are mostly verbal only and as such are not valid for Silent Spell, they must have another component. A few of the higher level composition focus spells do qualify though.
The Sorcerer feat Blood Component Substitution would work. Though at level 12 its not available to other classes (being the point of this thread).Visual manifestations of the spell would still occur. The actual magic itself could still make sound. But given that the spells themselves don't have Auditory traits, and removing the verbal component also removes the Composition traits requirement for an auditory performance, they could be reasonably quiet.
So yes it is possible to use interpretative dance or mime for Symphony of the Unfettered Heart and have a quiet performance.