Dragonchess Player |
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Dragonchess Player wrote:In this case it would actually be weaker. The gestalt rules state you take only gain the better of the two class features. Since both Arcanist and Mystic Theurge advance the caster level you still end up with a caster level of 20 for the Arcanist side, and not a caster level of 30. But you lose out of 10 levels of class features on the oracle side. You would be much better off taking Arcanist 20/ Oracle 20 instead.Shikaku Kyouryuu wrote:Arcanist (white mage?) 20/ Oracle (Time?) 10, Mystic Theurge 10Mystic theurge is one of the prestige classes that specifically should be prohibited in the gestalt variant rules.
It was probably an attempt to get Combined Spells or (very likely) Spell Synthesis. Spell Synthesis would allow the character to cast three spells in a round (as long as one was a swift action or using Quicken Spell metamagic) once per day.
Dragonchess Player |
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A more complete breakdown of the oracle 20//wizard (sword binder) 20:
Occ 1//Wiz 1- Implements (Abjuration/buckler, Transmutation/falcata), Focus Power (Aegis), Arcane Bond (falcata), Scribe Scroll; Extra Mental Focus
Occ 2//Wiz 2- Implement (Trappings of the Warrior panoply)
Occ 3//Wiz 3- Focus Power (Size Alteration); Arcane Armor Training (retrain to Quicken Spell at 10th+ level)
Occ 4//Wiz 4- n/a
Occ 5//Wiz 5- Focus Power (Quickness), Bonus Feat (Craft Magical Arms and Armor or Fast Study); Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Occ 6//Wiz 6- Implement (Divination/[goggles or headband])*
Occ 7//Wiz 7- Focus Power (Danger Sight); Augment Summoning
Occ 8//Wiz 8- n/a
Occ 9//Wiz 9- Focus Power (Mind Over Gravity); Persistent Spell
Occ 10//Wiz 10- Implement (Conjuration/compass [or wayfinder)
Occ 11//Wiz 11- Focus Power (Sidestep); True Name (12 HD outsider)
Occ 12//Wiz 12- n/a
Occ 13//Wiz 13- Focus Power ([Globe of Negation or Planar Ward]); Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)?
Occ 14//Wiz 14- Implement (Illusion/[mask or ring])
Occ 15//Wiz 15- Focus Power (Shadow Beast), Bonus Feat (True Name [18 HD outsider]); Dazing Spell?
Occ 16//Wiz 16- n/a
Occ 17//Wiz 17- Focus Power (Unseen?); Spell Penetration?
Occ 18//Wiz 18- Implement (Evocation/gloves)
Occ 19//Wiz 19- Focus Power ([Energy Blast or Energy Ward]?); Echoing Spell?
Occ 20//Wiz 20- Implement Mastery (Illusion?), Bonus Feat (Piercing Spell?)
*- starting at 7th level, the Third Eye resonant power is amazing
I decided to focus somewhat on battlefield control and conjuration/summoning spells on the wizard side to synergize with the Magic Circles and Outside Contact abilities from the occultist side. The choices with question marks are less central to the progression, and can be switched out or taken in a different order. IMO, Illusion implement powers are more useful than Evocation implement powers.
You will probably need to carefully plan your mental focus allocations for your implements. One of the reasons for the +1/2 mental focus FCB and Extra Mental Focus feat is that you will want a lot of mental focus points in the Abjuration, Divination, and Transmutation implements to meet certain resonant power thresholds.
MrCharisma |
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Dragonchess Player wrote:In this case it would actually be weaker. The gestalt rules state you take only gain the better of the two class features. Since both Arcanist and Mystic Theurge advance the caster level you still end up with a caster level of 20 for the Arcanist side, and not a caster level of 30. But you lose out of 10 levels of class features on the oracle side. You would be much better off taking Arcanist 20/ Oracle 20 instead.Shikaku Kyouryuu wrote:Arcanist (white mage?) 20/ Oracle (Time?) 10, Mystic Theurge 10Mystic theurge is one of the prestige classes that specifically should be prohibited in the gestalt variant rules.
One small caveat for that: Oracles still increase their Curse with non-Oracle levels, so you would still end up with the benefits of a 15th level Curse.
But yes the Arcanist side would be mostly useless. You could use MT to get 10 levels of another class instead of Arcanist though.
Warped Savant |
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I ran a PFS scenario for two of my players yesterday. We went with 25 point buy because there's only two fo them and gestalt.
I know it could've been worse and neither of them try to min/max or hyper-focus... but the level 6 Inquistor/Ranger (Ilsurian Archer) did 187 damage in two rounds (not including her final arrow as all enemies were dead) with two full attacks, and without criting.
The build is amazing and I love it.
DeathlessOne |
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An average of 26 damage a shot (assuming Rapid Shot/Many Shot was in play) is not really unexpected if you allow for a fully buffed attack routine (Judgement/Bane Weapon/Favored Enemy/Gravity Bow/etc).
If they were able to do that WITHOUT more than one buff up (which I assume would just be the Favored Enemy and Bane Weapon given action economy), I would probably doubt very much about the claim of a 'lack' of min/max or hyper-focusing.
Senko |
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As this has been resurected my preferences are . . . .
Arcanist/Alchemist: Pure magic researcher.
Arcanist/Monk: Drawing from Dr Strange the magic spells utilizing martial arts maneavours to create a magical art.
Arcanist/Slayer: Riftwarden for the worldwound blending physical combat and magical prowess. I would go ranger but I can only have a familiar or a companion not both.
Shame we don't have a tech option or I'd go Arcanist/Technician for a genius that is working towards magical technology like you see in starfinder. Advanced tech, advanced magic and basic magical technology.
Heather 540 |
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If I were to gestalt the rest of my completed characters, I think I'd go like this:
Len AKA Captain Cold: Gunchemist/Phantom Thief Rogue (with 3 levels of Trench Fighter on the Rogue side.)
Tamarie: Unchained Monk/Crusader Cleric (She already has one level of Cleric in her non-gestalt build, so it works.)
Mazon: Inquisitor/Ranger.
Tristian and Crissie: Dashing Thief Swashbuckler/Phantom Thief Rogue for both of them. (They're twins and I think combining their classes work for this. And I don't know of any other thief classes.)
Kotri is the hard one. Forgepriest/Paladin perhaps?
ShroudedInLight |
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Hunter and Barbarian is probably one of my favorite Gestalts. You grab Combat Expertise at level 1, Ferocious Mount as your Level 2 Rage Power, and for level 3 you grab Amplified Rage and Pack Flanking at the same time.
At this point both you and your Mount are raging for +8 Strength and +8 Constitution and anything both of you are threatening suffers from being flanked with another +4 bonus to your attack rolls. As soon as you can get yourself Power Attack you are ready to swing like a damn monster.
Hunter and Rogue can kinda do something similar with just Pack Flanking and Sneak Attacks to deliver hefty hits while gaining permanent flanking from being mounted.
I am also quite fond of Sorcerer/Scaled Fist Unchained Monk into Dragon Disciple/Scaled Fist.
Phoebus Alexandros |
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I quite like the idea of a Eldritch Scion-Druid gestalt.
Take Wild Shape and feats tied to it, like Natural Spell and the Natural Weapon line of feats. Then add to it the Maneuver Master and Natural Spell Combat Arcana. Now toss in feats like Runic Charge, to ensure that you don’t have to choose between a pouncing, raking charge and Spellstrike—at full BAB for each attack.
Hit them with Authoritative and/or Tumultuous Frigid Touch spells, to either leave them staggered and unable to even have that one attack and/or to bounce them off far enough (on average) to set them up for the next charge. Do all that while displaced and running Mirror Image, or simply invisible.
Even better, add VMC Cavalier to the mix, with Order of the Blossom, to add sneak attack damage every time you attack from concealment (which should be a bunch), and to impose a heft saving throw penalty against your spells… assuming you want to cast spells that allow saving throws to begin with.