What are some cool class combinations that can be had utilizing the unique half-elf benefit of Multitalented?
That is, taking a multiclass dedication feat without meeting the ability requirements AND whose follow-up archetype feats can compete with the 10th-level and higher feats offered by the base class.
Are there any combinations that you think would work well, or have have worked well for you already?
The big ones are:
Monk -> Flurry
Bard -> Inspire (retrain at 12) -> dirge
And to a lesser degree:
Alch -> Expert -> Master
Letting you ignore dex for monk flurry and int for alchemy are the big ones as far as that bonus effect goes.
Monk is the most obvious one.
Champion (on casters) or Magus are also useful. But outside Monk, I've never seen it used.
One hiccup w/ Retraining Inspire to snag Dirge is you'd need a low-level Bard feat taking up a 10th level slot to qualify for Dirge at 12th.
Which build is ignoring Dex & going w/ unarmed Strikes for Flurry?
Seems the Animal Barbarians would have 14 Dex. (Not that 9th isn't a perfect place to take the MCD anyway.)
Martial Artists in full plate? (Assuming one doesn't spend a high level feat for Monastic Weaponry.)
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Most of the classes, if you want their feats, you want to have the stat(s) that accompany those feats, especially when casters or the MCD's class DCs are involved. So while there are tons of good options for the 9th level MCD, I'm not sure there are many involving lack of a prerequisite. I think Monk stands out since it has such an eclectic set of abilities and needs two stats.
Low Str:
-Monk: Saves
-Monk: Crane Stance
-Monk: 10th (Edit: 1st/2nd level Ki feat)/12th Ki Blast for specific builds (divine/occult casters w/ Wis)
Low Dex:
-Monk: Saves
-Monk: Mountain Stance if beginning at high level
-Rogue: Skill boost, Ref Save, maybe Sneak Attack & a good Reaction (though the better ones would cost another high-level slot for a low-level feat).
Low Int:
-Magus: Spellstrike (which has so much base damage at this level that the lack of Int bonus matters less)
Low-Cha:
-Bard: for Compositions as noted above
-Champion: Reaction at 10th, Expert Heavy Armor
-Summoner: Just for the Eidelon (albeit a dubious choice)
-Swashbuckler: Riposte (according to others), Ref Saves
There are more that strained credulity or system wisdom, involving builds too esoteric for most players. Or just odd like Assurance (Diplomacy) w/ One For All on a low-Cha PC.
There are likely some Focus Spells I'm overlooking.
One hiccup w/ Retraining Inspire to snag Dirge is you'd need a low-level Bard feat taking up a 10th level slot to qualify for Dirge at 12th.
Which build is ignoring Dex & going w/ unarmed Strikes for Flurry?
Seems the Animal Barbarians would have 14 Dex. (Not that 9th isn't a perfect place to take the MCD anyway.)
Martial Artists in full plate? (Assuming one doesn't spend a high level feat for Monastic Weaponry.)
Dirge retrain is easy. If you invested in performance, you take lingering composition which is fantastic. If you didn't, bardic lore or directed audience which is less than ideal, but at that point maybe you just stick with inspire.
Fist fighter, anyone with sorc(dragon) dedication for d4+d6 claws, animal barbarian with sentinel for plate, and Thief all like not needing to hit both str and dex for monk.
Alchemist dedication is seen as something pretty good to bolt onto somebody in the party. Since so few classes want int in the first place, ignoring the prerequisite is valuable.
Spellstrike was a good catch. Forgot that one.
One hiccup w/ Retraining Inspire to snag Dirge is you'd need a low-level Bard feat taking up a 10th level slot to qualify for Dirge at 12th.
Which build is ignoring Dex & going w/ unarmed Strikes for Flurry?
Seems the Animal Barbarians would have 14 Dex. (Not that 9th isn't a perfect place to take the MCD anyway.)
Martial Artists in full plate? (Assuming one doesn't spend a high level feat for Monastic Weaponry.)Dirge retrain is easy. If you invested in performance, you take lingering composition which is fantastic. If you didn't, bardic lore or directed audience which is less than ideal, but at that point maybe you just stick with inspire.
Fist fighter, anyone with sorc(dragon) dedication for d4+d6 claws, animal barbarian with sentinel for plate, and Thief all like not needing to hit both str and dex for monk.
Alchemist dedication is seen as something pretty good to bolt onto somebody in the party. Since so few classes want int in the first place, ignoring the prerequisite is valuable.
Spellstrike was a good catch. Forgot that one.
I doubt a low-Cha PC will have much invested in Performance, or be good enough at it to warrant Lingering at 10th. Could happen, but...
If the party is that lean on Demoralize, etc., then picking up a Metamagic feat might be worth it to get to Dirge, but hopefully by those levels the party's already inflicting Frightened somehow. This is assuming organic growth from 1st.Is there such a thing as a fist Fighter that isn't already a Monk or a Martial Artist? (Or re: full plate, a Champion that isn't?)
I don't think I've seen a functional dragon claw build (and boy, did I want that to work when I toyed with it years ago). It takes investment simply to match weapons which come easy, and you're still using a Focus Point to get started.
Yes, Sentinel for the Animal Barbarian I suppose as a specific build that gets the unarmed w/ the full plate. Some hard choices on feats there for the 10th & 12th level!
And there might be some full plate Lizardfolk builds too (and others w/ natural weapons, but they're the best Ancestry for that IMO).
Thief dislikes unarmed, no Dex to damage. For that they'd need Monastic Weaponry, which might be worth a 10th/12th & 9th level Ancestry...maybe?
Actually, no. That's when Rogues get some awesome feats, like the Debilitations.
A Sentinel Rogue Ruffian maybe, but that'd be really, really niche, and they'd still likely want a Stance well before that if going unarmed.
(Lizardfolk Ruffian Sentinel?)
I didn't list Alchemist MCD since I didn't want to encourage it. :-P
There's certainly a time/campaign and place/party for that MCD & its toys, but if the player doesn't know that time & place, they probably should wait until they do and stick to their class's high level feats.
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Yes, Sentinel for the Animal Barbarian I suppose as a specific build that gets the unarmed w/ the full plate. Some hard choices on feats there for the 10th & 12th level!
And there might be some full plate Lizardfolk builds too (and others w/ natural weapons, but they're the best Ancestry for that IMO).Thief dislikes unarmed, no Dex to damage. For that they'd need Monastic Weaponry, which might be worth a 10th/12th & 9th level Ancestry...maybe?
Actually, no. That's when Rogues get some awesome feats, like the Debilitations.
A Sentinel Rogue Ruffian maybe, but that'd be really, really niche, and they'd still likely want a Stance well before that if going unarmed.
(Lizardfolk Ruffian Sentinel?)
Lizardfolk can't really benefit from half-elven Multitalented. There's no way to get the half-elven version without being a half-elf human.
Lizardfolk Ruffian Rogue is a good choice for Flurry of Blows, especially with Threatening Approach and Dread Striker. Worth Adopted Ancestry (Human)
Some hard choices on feats there for the 10th & 12th leve
Thats really the point of Multitalented. Saving you that extra class feat, its obviously only important for some builds, and less important if you are playing with free archetype. Level 8-12 class feats can be really strong and you don't want to miss them.
The half elf saving you the ability scores is typically less important. But there are a lot of archetypes that don't especially need their ability score. Int or Cha can often be skipped for caster dedications if you don't want to make spell attack rolls. Other examples:
Magus springs to mind (take Shield and TKP as your cantrips, take your once per encounter spell strike. If you end up taking spell slots then True Strike is all you need.
Inventor to pick up that innovation you want.
Investigator for the Stratagem, you can't use your Int on it anyway.
From mid level a part time Alchemist can get away with a low Int.
Thats not to say that investing in these abilities scores won't give you a benefit. It will, but its your choice.
Yes, Sentinel for the Animal Barbarian I suppose as a specific build that gets the unarmed w/ the full plate. Some hard choices on feats there for the 10th & 12th level!
And there might be some full plate Lizardfolk builds too (and others w/ natural weapons, but they're the best Ancestry for that IMO).Thief dislikes unarmed, no Dex to damage. For that they'd need Monastic Weaponry, which might be worth a 10th/12th & 9th level Ancestry...maybe?
Actually, no. That's when Rogues get some awesome feats, like the Debilitations.
A Sentinel Rogue Ruffian maybe, but that'd be really, really niche, and they'd still likely want a Stance well before that if going unarmed.
(Lizardfolk Ruffian Sentinel?)Lizardfolk can't really benefit from half-elven Multitalented. There's no way to get the half-elven version without being a half-elf human.
Lizardfolk Ruffian Rogue is a good choice for Flurry of Blows, especially with Threatening Approach and Dread Striker. Worth Adopted Ancestry (Human)
Yeah, that was dumb of me re: Lizardfolk, getting caught up in the combos. :-)
Personally I think I'd just go w/ the stats & early Monk (and skip Sentinel, which is why there'd be a lower Dex), but I tend to put more worth in General Feats than most.
Some hard choices on feats there for the 10th & 12th leveThats really the point of Multitalented. Saving you that extra class feat, its obviously only important for some builds, and less important if you are playing with free archetype. Level 8-12 class feats can be really strong and you don't want to miss them.
The whole discussion regards the point of Multitalented...
The context was that a Sentinel Animal Barbarian w/ MCD Monk at 9th would have hard choices at 10th & 12th. (Obviously no Free Archetype.) So I'm missing your point unless it's to reinforce mine.---
Separately, oops about forgetting Wild Shape Druids (or MCD Druids) who don't require much Str/Dex (though a few feats want Str). They'd want Flurry/Stunning Fist if focused on Wild Shape > casting (not that I recommend that, but if pursuing that anyway).
Thief can still flurry with monastic weapons at 12 (wind/fire wheel via unconventional weaponry at 1 perhaps). At 14, between flurry and preparation you have superb action and reaction economy. Debilitations hardly compare (though are probably good to take at 10 and retrain at 12)
Sorc nails are actually a pretty solid unarmed attack. d4 + d6 is 6 damage which beats out everything short of a d12 on raw damage and leaves you with a free hand for trips and/or grapples. The d6 scales slightly faster than striking runes do giving you a better damage curve than most weapons. A focus point to start it up is no worse than a stance as well. The resistance is just a cherry on top.
This build is typically only for champions, but a monk can do multitalented sorc->claws for a finesse attack that beats their finesse stances. Unfortunately, the claws don't have a weapon group for fighter to link into and barbarian can't afford a second action tax or the contortions needed to make it happen without FAT. Same for ruffians.
Some hard choices on feats there for the 10th & 12th levelWhat L10 feat does a Barbarian get that's better than Flurry of Blows? I took Silencing Strike on mine but I regret not going the Half-Elf Animal Barbarian Sentinel route.
Flurry of Blows is basically an extra action a turn if you are doing unarmed attacks, so the answer is nothing at level 10.
There are 3 feats at level 8 an Animal Barbarian really wants though. Friendly Toss, Furious Bully, Renewed Vigour. I'd think about going back for a second one of these at level 10.
Some hard choices on feats there for the 10th & 12th levelWhat L10 feat does a Barbarian get that's better than Flurry of Blows? I took Silencing Strike on mine but I regret not going the Half-Elf Animal Barbarian Sentinel route.
Flurry wins vs. Mighty Bulwark which is one of the strengths of Sentinel, undercutting its value. Sorry to hear Silencing Strike disappointed you; that would be a contender too yes, depending one one's average enemy level. Flurry's the point of the MCD, and Sentinel's part of the low-Dex build that leads to the Half-Elf, but I think I'd go w/ Monk earlier and have Dex...unless starting at higher levels.
And I'd think Stunning Fist wins at 12th, yet there's also Perfection's Path (patch up that vulnerability) & Predator's Pounce (Flourish, so not w/ Flurry). One-Inch Punch would've been cool too, though not so much w/ Flurry around.
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Yes, Monastic Weaponry was mentioned for Thief. If you think it's worth it, go for it, but that seems pricey to me.
I agree, the free hand on Dragon Claws is a draw for me with the resistance being nice frosting. (And Dragon!)
But by the time you get Dragon Claws on a martial, you're 4th level, so the damage compares more like 2d4 + 1d6 vs. 2dX, at least until 9th level. So 8.5 is beat by 11 for a 2d10 Reach+Trip weapon (which if a Champion or Fighter means a lot more squares covered w/ Reactions).
Plus they're not using an action and not at risk of a new enemy before Refocusing. Plus do they have a crit specialization?
Another drawback w/ Champion is I'd prefer the Focus Point for Lay on Hands. Spending it early feels like doing that much damage to myself! (I know, it's a Champion so I shouldn't have to worry about hit points.)
Not sure Dragon Claws is superior to Monk Finesse Stances since those are Agile, and often come w/ a cool follow-up feat. I can't see it be worth the Charisma (early) or one's 9th MCD/10th class feats vs. a 1st level feat. It might blend well with an archer/switch hitter though, but I'm reaching.
I'm confused on people bringing up Sentinel. It isn't a Multiclass Archetype, so it doesn't qualify for Multitalented.
Or is the build suggestion for someone who already has Sentinel to be able to pick up a different Archetype?
I'm confused on people bringing up Sentinel. It isn't a Multiclass Archetype, so it doesn't qualify for Multitalented.
Or is the build suggestion for someone who already has Sentinel to be able to pick up a different Archetype?
I suspect it's merely suggested as one component of the proposed builds, rather than intending to be comboed with Multitalented.
Not tremendously powerful or exploiting the half-elf being able to ignore ability score prerequisites, but using Multitalented to take the Acrobat Dedication could be useful by itself for automatically gaining master proficiency in Acrobatics and legendary at 15th (instead of needing to use skill increases or a class feat).
Similarly, using Multitalented to take the Inventor Dedication (a half-elf can ignore the 14 Int prerequisite) allows selection of Brilliant Crafter at 10th, granting master proficiency in Crafting and legendary at 15th. Probably useful for a gunslinger going the Munitions Crafter, Alchemical Shot, Munitions Machinist (and possibly Precious Munitions) route, or even an alchemist that wants to use their skill increases on something other than Crafting.
A non-Str-based Mauler sounds odd, but some of the feats opened by the dedication can be used just as well with two-handed finesse weapons (elven curve blade, elven branched spear, etc.) and don't rely on Athletics: Power Attack, Brutal Finish, Avalanche Strike.
The Provocator Dedication could be useful for a Dex-focused half-elf investigator in Agents of Edgewatch that may not have the 14 Str and 14 Cha prerequisites. The character would have to wait until 13th to take it with Multitalented, however.
I suspect it's merely suggested as one component of the proposed builds, rather than intending to be comboed with Multitalented.
I have a lingering suspicion that some people are proposing otherwise.
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I'm confused on people bringing up Sentinel. It isn't a Multiclass Archetype, so it doesn't qualify for Multitalented.
Or is the build suggestion for someone who already has Sentinel to be able to pick up a different Archetype?
The second one. Sentinel is good for full plate, which 1) boosts AC and 2) let's you dump DEX without sacrificing Reflex. But if you dump DEX, you can't take multiclass dedications that requre 14 DEX...unless you're a half-elf with Multitalented.
Not tremendously powerful or exploiting the half-elf being able to ignore ability score prerequisites, but using Multitalented to take the Acrobat Dedication could be useful by itself for automatically gaining master proficiency in Acrobatics and legendary at 15th (instead of needing to use skill increases or a class feat).
Multitalented is limited to multiclass archetypes, so no Acrobat, Mauler, or Provocateur.
Edit: or Sentinel.
Not tremendously powerful or exploiting the half-elf being able to ignore ability score prerequisites, but using Multitalented to take the Acrobat Dedication could be useful by itself for automatically gaining master proficiency in Acrobatics and legendary at 15th (instead of needing to use skill increases or a class feat).Multitalented is limited to multiclass archetypes, so no Acrobat, Mauler, or Provocateur.
Edit: or Sentinel.
Ah, well. Inventor is still good if you want to increase Crafting and/or add a Basic Modification to your primary weapon (or other innovation).
Champion to pick up armor plus access to Champion's Resiliency and Diverse Armor Expert, fighter to pick up martial weapons plus Fighter's Resiliency and Diverse Weapon Expert, and ranger for access to Ranger Resiliency and Master Spotter also seem to be useful.
If you are looking for a specific one or two feats from a given class, Multitalented helps reduce the opportunity cost on ability scores and the available base class feats.
I suspect it's merely suggested as one component of the proposed builds, rather than intending to be comboed with Multitalented.I'm confused on people bringing up Sentinel. It isn't a Multiclass Archetype, so it doesn't qualify for Multitalented.
Or is the build suggestion for someone who already has Sentinel to be able to pick up a different Archetype?
Correct. Nobody has suggested Sentinel for Multitalented.
As Necrog1ant pointed out, Sentinel leads to ignoring Dex which leads to failing prereqs for some MCDs which need Multitalented to bypass.Otherwise it's only Champions and Fighters that would safely have less than 14 Dex by 9th.
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I don't think Resiliency feats pay off well if taking the MCD's feats at 10th+. There just aren't many feats feeding into it.
I had been wondering if some people would value Master Perception enough. I could see a Cleric with its iffy feats and high Wisdom doing well with having that for initiative and getting off an early spell. But then again, my Cleric builds gravitate toward stronger Focus Spells so would prefer recharging 2/lull instead. But one built around a god, its weapon, or its spell access might think otherwise.
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I could see going Champion not for the armor (if you don't have the Str, that's an undesirable hit to mobility), but for getting a Cha-based Domain Focus Spell. Like say for an Oracle or Divine Sorcerer, I'd like picking up Wyrmkin's Draconic Barrage at 10th+ where its multiplicative nature blossoms.
I could see going Champion not for the armor (if you don't have the Str, that's an undesirable hit to mobility), but for getting a Cha-based Domain Focus Spell. Like say for an Oracle or Divine Sorcerer, I'd like picking up Wyrmkin's Draconic Barrage at 10th+ where its multiplicative nature blossoms.
A moderate or high Str/low Cha character may just want the armor: an alchemist focused more on melee instead of bombs, a more tank-like investigator, or maybe just a cloistered cleric, witch, or wizard that wants better protection without a high Dex.
I could see going Champion not for the armor (if you don't have the Str, that's an undesirable hit to mobility), but for getting a Cha-based Domain Focus Spell. Like say for an Oracle or Divine Sorcerer, I'd like picking up Wyrmkin's Draconic Barrage at 10th+ where its multiplicative nature blossoms.A moderate or high Str/low Cha character may just want the armor: an alchemist focused more on melee instead of bombs, a more tank-like investigator, or maybe just a cloistered cleric, witch, or wizard that wants better protection without a high Dex.
First, they'd have to survive to 9th, and then sort of commit to getting Expert w/ another feat. Yes, they could train/Retrain (if the plot allows), yet I'd think Sentinel would be the better route if leaning this direction (and it'd open up non-Half-Elf options).
Second, unless they have a movement effect that ignores one's base speed, they're severely hindered, especially if a melee character. They'll generally fly slow, barely jump, and they'll occasionally get kited (which really sucks to be on the receiving end of). Higher level terrain is more dynamic and strenuous (or should be!). They'd have to invest a lot of resources to be viable IMO. It can be done, but I don't think the trade's worthwhile when skirmishing remains an option that frees resources for other investments.
Maybe it's my time in PFS watching parties have to split speaking, but I've seen PCs lag turns behind as others race to achieve a goal like catching a baddie, pulling a victim out of danger, outrunning a gas cloud, stopping a ritual, etc. "Speed Kills" as it were.
And I'm not even counting chase mechanics, mainly because I avoid them, but there's that too.
Note I'm not saying that those builds don't or couldn't exist which would require what you're suggesting, it's just I'd suggest there might be wiser paths.
At 10th level, Hymn of Healing heals 10 hit points and provides 10 temporary hit points a round for 4 rounds. Being able to pick it up for a low charisma character, especially on a class that doesn’t have good third action options, is really good.
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A moderate or high Str/low Cha character may just want the armor: an alchemist focused more on melee instead of bombs, a more tank-like investigator, or maybe just a cloistered cleric, witch, or wizard that wants better protection without a high Dex.First, they'd have to survive to 9th, and then sort of commit to getting Expert w/ another feat. Yes, they could train/Retrain (if the plot allows), yet I'd think Sentinel would be the better route if leaning this direction (and it'd open up non-Half-Elf options).
Second, unless they have a movement effect that ignores one's base speed, they're severely hindered, especially if a melee character. They'll generally fly slow, barely jump, and they'll occasionally get kited (which really sucks to be on the receiving end of). Higher level terrain is more dynamic and strenuous (or should be!). They'd have to invest a lot of resources to be viable IMO. It can be done, but I don't think the trade's worthwhile when skirmishing remains an option that frees resources for other investments.
Maybe it's my time in PFS watching parties have to split speaking, but I've seen PCs lag turns behind as others race to achieve a goal like catching a baddie, pulling a victim out of danger, outrunning a gas cloud, stopping a ritual, etc. "Speed Kills" as it were.
And I'm not even counting chase mechanics, mainly because I avoid them, but there's that too.Note I'm not saying that those builds don't or couldn't exist which would require what you're suggesting, it's just I'd suggest there might be wiser paths.
Yes and no. I did what Castilliano described for PFS, since I wanted my -2001 Arcane Sorcerer to have high INT, and the Sentinel archetype wasn't out yet.
Surviving to 9th level was not an issue. Due to boons I got to rebuild my PC entirely at Level 6, but PFS doesn't have much lethal combat. I would need to burn a feat at 14th level, and I might or might not, but PFS doesn't go that high yet. I also haven't noticed monsters kiting me, and the fly spell handles strenous terrain
As for speed, Nimble Elf + Fleet + Wand of heightened Longstrider gives you + 20 feet, full plate gives you -10. I would buy boots of speed if I thought I needed them. Plus Reach Spell.
I don't think Chases use your speed anymore.
If I were building an Armor Mage today for low levels, the I'd use a Versatile Human + General Training + Sentinel Dedication. For a high level game, I might still use Multitalented + Champion Dedication
You don't *have* to go further in the archetype in question. You can just run one-and-done.
For a simple example, let yourself dump dex on a caster. Take Sentinel early, soak the point or two of AC loss, then half-elf for Champion at 9 and retrain Sentinel for something else.
I could see going Champion not for the armor (if you don't have the Str, that's an undesirable hit to mobility), but for getting a Cha-based Domain Focus Spell. Like say for an Oracle or Divine Sorcerer, I'd like picking up Wyrmkin's Draconic Barrage at 10th+ where its multiplicative nature blossoms.A moderate or high Str/low Cha character may just want the armor: an alchemist focused more on melee instead of bombs, a more tank-like investigator, or maybe just a cloistered cleric, witch, or wizard that wants better protection without a high Dex.First, they'd have to survive to 9th, and then sort of commit to getting Expert w/ another feat. Yes, they could train/Retrain (if the plot allows), yet I'd think Sentinel would be the better route if leaning this direction (and it'd open up non-Half-Elf options).
Second, unless they have a movement effect that ignores one's base speed, they're severely hindered, especially if a melee character. They'll generally fly slow, barely jump, and they'll occasionally get kited (which really sucks to be on the receiving end of). Higher level terrain is more dynamic and strenuous (or should be!). They'd have to invest a lot of resources to be viable IMO. It can be done, but I don't think the trade's worthwhile when skirmishing remains an option that frees resources for other investments.
Maybe it's my time in PFS watching parties have to split speaking, but I've seen PCs lag turns behind as others race to achieve a goal like catching a baddie, pulling a victim out of danger, outrunning a gas cloud, stopping a ritual, etc. "Speed Kills" as it were.
And I'm not even counting chase mechanics, mainly because I avoid them, but there's that too.Note I'm not saying that those builds don't or couldn't exist which would require what you're suggesting, it's just I'd suggest there might be wiser paths.
Nice assumption (even though I specified "moderate or high Str/low Cha") that the character will not have enough Str to use the armor they wear without incurring the armor check penalties/full speed reduction.
To provide an example: an alchemist starting with 14 Str, 16 or 18 Int, and 10 Cha; somewhat melee-focused, so take the Mauler Dedication and use a two-handed (possibly reach) weapon; at 5th level, put one of their four advancements in Str (bringing it to 16); with the Champion Dedication at 9th, they can wear splint mail or half plate; at 10th level, again with one of their four advancements in Str (bringing it to 18), they can wear full plate. Note that depending on how much of a melee focus you want, starting with a 16 Str is still possible. Note that Light Armor Expertise is gained at 13th level, so there is only a one level gap before taking Diverse Armor Expert at 14th for expert proficiency in heavy armor.
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I have noticed that after 3 years, nobody is really playing anything above 8th level in PFS (with the exception of APs which are really just self contained campaigns)...
I would need to burn a feat at 14th level, and I might or might not, but PFS doesn't go that high yet. I also...
There's been three scenarios that go to that level, with a fourth coming out in July. Compare that to the sixty or so scenarios that have been published.
But yeah, I'm not concerned about level 14 just yet :)