First a disclaimer - this is NOT a Recruitment Thread. There is no reason to submit characters, though character related questions are welcome (because they can serve as an example for what we would be trying to put in place), as well as any others :D
With that being said, I am pondering running a Sandbox-y game (or maybe not) surrounding the infamous Zelkor's Ferry (you are all seeing where we may eventually go with this, right?).
For this, I would like to have strong, well rounded characters which make sense - but the thing is, I don't want to fall inadvertently victim of PF's well known power creep, ending up with a skewed game in my hands, or having to go head over heels modifying every single encounter to make it appropriate to broken characters. So the plan would be something along the lines of:
---------------------------------------------------------
- PF1 character starting at level 2 (probably);
- 25 pt buy character creation with no stats below 6 after racial adjustment (I would keep an attentive eye on dump stats);
- Elephant in the Room alternative rules in effect (I am not 100% sure on this, but let us assume so);
- Allowed sources: Core rulebook, Advanced Player Guide, Advanced Class Guide, Pathfinder Unchained, and that is about it. I am not inclined to saying yesto races from Advanced Races Guide, but alternative Tiefling and Aasimar racial traits and Heritages would probably be a yes;
- Two traits;
- Feats need to make sense for the character (I know this is hard to explain, but I am also confident most of you know what it means - do not just combo this and that trait with a feat to give you an 'I WIN' button. Instead try to go for choices which make sense, even if they are not the top of the top at the top);
- Background Skills are a Yes (and I would try to make them relevant. But again, these are Background skills - even though I would not expect nor demand a long background, these skills should make sense accordingly);
- HPs max at level 1, then average (or I roll for you);
- Starting WBL for level 2 (I think this is 1000 gold?);
- A note on multiclassing, and this is something which may turn some people off to the whole thing - I think I would want to go a bit 'old school' on this one. I like dipping, and I think it can be fun/interesting/cool/powerful. But I think I want to try and make these things happen organically in game - I am not 100% sure how I would implement this, but it would mean if you are a fighter wanting to dip a level of wizard, then you probably need a mentor/someone to guide you at least in the beginning. Some transitions would be easier to accomplish (Someone (almost any class) who wants to learn more about fighting, and takes a dip in Fighter, for example), others not so much (a Rogue who wants to take a dip in Druid) - this would require some adjudication from my part as a DM, but I hope we can make it a reality. I am not blocking dipping, I am simply saying that some more convoluted ones would become part of the story itself (as an example - dipping cavalier may entail travelling to the Order's headquarters, and taking the appropriate tests/vows, etc).
- (for sure something will be forgotten :D)
---------------------------------------------------------
Though sandbox-y, I would expect the group's earlier endeavors to be be related with discovering the surrounding region and wildlife, urban events related with the local inhabitants, exploration, etc. And we would see where it would take us. As per my usual self, I prefer to start small and grow, than be overly ambitious and never get things off the ground.
The most relevant question of all here is - would there be interest in participating in such a game? What are the positives and negatives you see, if any? Shoot away, ladies and gentlemen!
Interesting.
A note on multiclassing: Since the characters are starting at second level, perhaps have both classes selected for the two levels and have the details covered in history? Personally I agree. How do you explain a dip in a class like wizard that supposedly would take years of apprenticing and study? And where did the spellbook come from? It comes to a wizard at first level, but to a non-wizard? That's a fairly expensive item!
Checking/confirming: Not using any of the "Ultimate" books? So no Magus?
Good catch! Of course Magus is a Yes :D
That's an interesting setting and sandbox games can be amazing.
I appreciate interesting characters over one dimensional murder machines and I understand what you mean about uneven power levels. However I suspect prohibiting feat combos may have the opposite effect to the one intended, because past a certain point full casters are so powerful they outshine martial characters even if they restricted to the CRB and deniened feats, and the martials where allowed full system mastery with all the splat books.
There are various band-aids you could attempt each with their own pros and cons:
* Ban all non-paizo content (basically no downside to this)
* Consider PFS build rules (some of the more egregious things are banned in PFS)
* Full spell casters tend to be very SAD, which gives them a major advantage especially in a 25 pt build. You might limit Int/Wis/Cha to 16 at creation with no stat below 10 for any character.
* With some exceptions (oracle & sorcerer I'm looking at you) in PF1e, dips tend to result in weaker characters over all, still banning dips could be reasonable to keep things simple.
* Ban full casters (I know some players will be put off by this)
* The math for PF1e falls apart at high level, so you could consider E6. Not sure how that'd square with a certain famously lethal super dungeon since that goes to rather high level. Being honest though that's a probably for several years time at the typical pbp pace (and the vast majority of pbp games don't last that long).
* Try PF2e, it's much better balanced but you'd have a bunch of work to convert encounters.
Personally I'd recommend just asking folks not to optimize hard without actually specifying many constraints. I'd also recommend asking for a sketch of their character at lvl 7 as well as the full lvl 2 build so there's no surprises.
I am interested.
I do like the idea of character creation and subsequent development "making sense", even to the point of a GM simply disallowing certain options to maintain balance. Games that are out of balance quickly lose the fun.
The main issue I see with sandbox campaigns is the lack of direction. They can become disjointed and desultory with no real sense of purpose. As long as there is some underlying primary story/objective that the players discover in a "sandbox" way, then all is good (I'm assuming that's what you have in mind here).
Anyway, the outline you gave sounds good. The greatest problem is likely to be maintaining caster/martial balance at high level, but as DM Fang Dragon said, that may never even materialize.
Thank you for the feedback so far everyone, and for the detail @DM Fang Dragon!
@xugarf: It would be a sandbox with an underlying primary story/objective ;)
I'd be interested, but curious on the custom rules you're proposing.
One thing... I'd assume, since it's more sandbox-ed/customized, that someone with knowledge about Rappan Attuk (someone that GMed a lot of it in the past...) would still be okay to apply, right?
Perfectly ok @Lapyd ;)
@Crisischild: I actually like that idea more than I thought I would... Thanks!