Magic Item Creation


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I'm reworking some of the material in my Homebrew Campaign, and I'm trying to figure out the actual cost of an infinite use Cure Light Wounds item.

Now.... Command word: Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp

Straightforward enough, and here's the however (that confuses me)
If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges. If it has some daily limit, determine as if it had 50 charges.

Does this mean that I use the Special:Charges per day, Spell Effect:50 charges, spell trigger, or something else entirely? Because honestly, my gut reaction is to simply multiply by 5 and be done with it.


I think the 100 charges bit is for magic items that have expensive material components. You would need to provide the component for 100 castings. Or 50 castings for magic items that have charges per day.

Because cure light wounds has no material component, an infinite wand of cure light wounds would cost 1800 gp.

Shadow Lodge

Magic item pricing should be based on effect rather than the specific spell used: A permanent item that casts Mage Armor 20+ times per day should never be cheaper than the 16,000g price of Bracers of Armor (+4), regardless of what the formulas might say.

The essential question to ask yourself is: Why would anyone make a 50 charge wand when you could make an unlimited charge item for just twice the price?

Pricing of Custom Magic Items is more of an art than a science, which is why I generally recommend avoiding it entirely


Not to mention that an infinite cure light wound item would be severely overpowered and never allowed by any halfway competent GM.


if the price should follow the table, would you allow at the same cost for an infinite true strike item? (+20 to attack, insight, and no miss chance for concealment etc).

Dark Archive

Just use Boots of the earth

Fast healing 1, unlimited times a day

The Exchange

Yeah, this is one you’re not going to find an exact formula price for. It’s going to have to be priced by comparison. Let’s try to come up with items that provide an unlimited amount of healing, pros and cons vs an unlimited use CLW wand, and figure out where this would fall.

Ring of regeneration - 90,000 gp. Only 1 HP per round and only affects the wearer but does not require an action or any spellcasting ability.

Staff of Cure Light Wounds - 3,200 for CL8. Would be 400 gp if CL1 was legal. Max 10 charges and only refills one per day (and requires a spellcaster to give up a slot each day to refill that charge).

My gut feeling is that somewhere between 75,000 and 100,000 gp is the right price. If I allowed it at all. That pricing is probably fine for an adventuring party but the mere existence of such an item would distort life in any community where one was present.


What healer in their right mind wouldn't want something like this?

Personally, I don't see the existence of such magic items to be game breaking. Do you then prohibit the party from taking rest periods because they want to go into encounters at full strength?

Aside: True Strike has a duration measured in rounds, so it'd use a 4x multiplier.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:


The essential question to ask yourself is: Why would anyone make a 50 charge wand when you could make an unlimited charge item for just twice the price?

Because you can affect multiple targets at once?

Because you have other bracers you want to use?
Because you don't have enough money for the bracers now?


I was going to edit but I'll just make a new post instead.

As I've been playing on and off since red box (original D&D), I've come to recognize that there's a large amount of "always been done this way" built into our thinking. Custom magic items weren't even a thing (other than possibly intelligent ones) until 3.0....

So yes, I'm trying to think outside the box a bit and figure it out.

Shadow Lodge

lightsenshi6 wrote:
What healer in their right mind wouldn't want something like this?

If you have to ask that question, you've probably got an overpowered item...

The Custom Magic Item pricing rules* have been around for 20+ years now and they've always been pretty easy to break, so you really need to balance the end effect against existing items for your world to make any sense..

*They're more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules...


lightsenshi6 wrote:

Do you then prohibit the party from taking rest periods because they want to go into encounters at full strength?

Yes I do, encounters should use party resources. If the party is allowed a rest after every encounter, then no resources are ever being used up.

The Exchange

lightsenshi6 wrote:
What healer in their right mind wouldn't want something like this?

Every healer would want this, which is why it either shouldn't exist or should be prohibitively expensive.

Quote:
Personally, I don't see the existence of such magic items to be game breaking.

Nothing is game-breaking if the GM is countering with equal-power enemy options.

Quote:
Do you then prohibit the party from taking rest periods because they want to go into encounters at full strength?

Nope, of course not. However if they aren't using fast but limited resources (spells, channels, wands, etc.) and are taking an overnight rest to heal up, there may or may not be consequences. (Ambushes, BBEG flees when the guards they defeated don't report in, Diabolical Plan gets closer to completion, etc.) Even if they are using limited resources some very close-by or time-critical encounters may be impacted by pausing for a few minutes of clw wanding.

Quote:
Aside: True Strike has a duration measured in rounds, so it'd use a 4x multiplier.

So yeah. Making a true strike item is the classic example of what you shouldn't do. Every attacker would want this (see above).

In the same sense that you should never put a handgun in the hands of a 5 year old child, I say "you shouldn't put a true strike item in your game." Yes, if you know your 5yo very well and know he or she can handle it responsibly, that's up to you, but rather than adding that caveat every single time this comes up (and I've addressed it many, many times), it's easier and simpler to say "don't do it, it's dangerous."
also in that thread Sean wrote:

Why, in the 11-year history of D&D 3E and Pathfinder, has a reasonable multi-use not-spell-trigger-or-limited-charges true strike item never appeared in an official Wizards or Paizo product?

Because the designers realize that giving combat-oriented characters routine and easy access to a +20 attack bonus is a big, big problem, and pricing an unlimited-use version of that spell pushes well beyond the 200,000 gp maximum value for most wondrous items.

That said, do what you want in your campaign.

The Exchange

After thinking on the item what I would do - assuming you still want to put it in your game - is make this item a minor artifact. Let the party acquire it sometime around 9th level (around the time that healing cost or spell/channel usage for healing starts to become minor anyway).

The artifact would be keyed to a maximum number of creatures - say 6 - that could it could be used on. Adding or changing a keyed creature (including adding the party when they first find it) would require a ritual that costs about 2,000 gp in rare materials per creature.


well, there are conditions/limitanions on whatever you mean by 'infinite use'.
Essentially the vast majority of magic items are infinite use. They're just not used/activated every round 24 hrs a game day, mostly 1/day or when the duration is started during a martial challenge. Some things are continuous effect.
So it depends on how it works/activates and the targets and effect duration.
A cure light wand 1@1 $750. An 'on demand' (spell activation) item.
An ioun stone can give a wearer 1 point of healing from regeneration every hour for $3400, quite nice really.
A Ring of Regeneration does 1pt/round for $90000, a bit pricy for that recovery rate.

As a GM you could make an item with Regeneration or Cure Light Wounds 1/d. Cure Light Wounds 1@1 {cmmd word} 3/d seems reasonable. I don't know as a GM I'd go more than that. Another avenue is Infernal Healing 1@1 {cmmd word} 3/d. Again a good solid item.
Check out 'Items that can save you' thread'

Liberty's Edge

Ultimate Campaign wrote:

Pricing New Items

The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items in the Core Rulebook (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values on page 549 of the Core Rulebook), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from the “command word” or “use activated or continuous” lines of Table 15–29 on page 550
of Core Rulebook.


lightsenshi6 wrote:

...

Command word: Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp

Straightforward enough, and here's the however (that confuses me)
If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges. If it has some daily limit, determine as if it had 50 charges.
...

I had to read your question again. RAW(this is old 3.5 Raw) is talking about a Wondrous Item that is continuous (like a Belt of Strength based on the Bull's Strength spell) where there is a costly material components {and foci} (luckily *that* spell has no costly components). So you'd have to buy 100 components to make a continuous item in a similar manner where you have to buy 50 costly components for a Wand. Paizo basically defined costly as 1gp or more.

Where there is a foci involved, one has to be purchased and incorporated into the finished item.
These two things add to the final cost (or price) of a magic item.

You can see the effect for a Wand of Stoneskin or magic items that are based on the spell. Thus a Belt of Stoneskin that granted a continuous effect would be fantastically expensive.

In Ult Magic Paizo recognized that there are Game Balance considerations in some magic items and that the word "guideline" wasn't sufficient and produced extra words to give some more guidelines. Also designers/writers occasionally goof on prices and sometimes it's a big deal AND it is in print (RAW). Overpriced items don't cause the issues underpriced items do. Sometimes it is the description & the price. The Boots of the Earth are a fine example of the latter where the description is too lose and makes the item overpriced.


lightsenshi6 wrote:
I'm reworking some of the material in my Homebrew Campaign, and I'm trying to figure out the actual cost of an infinite use Cure Light Wounds item...

Would it not be simpler to have the party return to max HP after every battle? That is what your effectively giving them with an unlimited wand of curing.


An (unlimited) Wand of Cure Light Wounds 1@1 [unlimited charges] would be an excellent item. Still a spell trigger item (Spell Lists) and counts as a weapon for AoO. Game Balance wise not too game breaking in a high magic setting. A Wand of Infernal Healing 1@1 [unlimited] might be better as it heals at a bit slower rate and the spell couldn't be spammed as effectively within a party.
Still 100 components * 0gp = 0gp. So that's not helpful.
As a GM call 5* usual cost is reasonable.

Belafon wanted to constrain the item by using the artifact rules to limit targeting to X number of spell targets. Also artifacts are GM only items.

You could add that as a restriction in the write up without the artifact rules as this is a Custom Item. Again, the attuning ritual would take an inconvenient amount of time and some low to exorbitant cost. I'd go with 1-24 hours and 200-0gp per target (note the inverse relation of time to cost). Be clear if the atunement ritual requires all the targets to be present OR if the targets can be added 1 by 1 or removed in a similar manner. The first is simple and eliminates old spell targets (from 100 years ago).
Lastly you will have to set an effective Spell Caster Level for UMD and dispelling purposes. With the 5* cost it argues for 1*5 or 5th Spell Caster Level. Be clear that the Spell DC for saves is not affected.

While this is a General Discussion, going in specifics or a Home Game rule would put this thread in Homebrew Forums.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Magic Item Creation All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion