Witch dedication gives you a familiar. Level 7 onwards you can pick Spell Battery as a master ability for your familiar if you already are a caster. That bonus spell is intended to go to you main spellcasting source, to your witch spell slots or can you choose?
I'm about to play a level 13 Magus with the Witch dedication for a oneshot. I have up to level 4 occult spells and up to level 7 arcane spells, what happens with the spell from spell battery?
I'm pretty sure it even goes further than that - that the slot you get doesn't have to be of the same type as the slot that's counting as your highest. The "highest spell slot" determines the level of slot it is, and the utter lack of any indication of slot type suggests that it can be of any type at all. Of course, if you have no spells known of that type, it's not going to do you a lot of good.
Admittedly, this can lead to certain twists of logic that start *looking* like weird game-breaking cheese, but at the end of the day, it turns out that the "twist the rules up into pretzels" version is actually less powerful than the bog-standard obviously intended use, and the more pretzel-twisting that you include, the more limited it is.
In the above, by my ready, your familiar will give you a level 4 slot. You can use that as a witch slot or a magus slot.
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Yes you can take it as an Arcane or an Occult slot. There is no suggestion anywhere that you can't. Your familiar abilities are tied to a caster not a tradition, even for a witches familiar.
You gain one additional spell slot at least 3 levels lower than your highest-level spell slot; you must be able to cast 4th-level spells using spell slots to select this master ability.I say that you always go with your highest spell slot ( so, in your specific situation, you are going to use your magus spellcasting ).
Consider that we also have familiars you get through ancestry feats, and that you can mix those with class feats.
For example, as a Bard you may get
- animal accomplice from the Gnome ancestry
- Enhanced familiar through the Wizard dedication
- Use spell battery for your bard spell slots
That was clear to me, my question was if that extra spell slot had to go to occult, arcane or either of those.
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I would say that the slot should be typed based on whichever list you're using to qualify for the slot. So if you're using your arcane 7th level casting to get a 4th level slot, you're getting an arcane spell in the example above. If you want to use Occult, you get a 1st level slot.Otherwise you open the potential of players gaining slots for traditions significantly above the level they can cast. A level 20 arcane spellcaster with the basic witch spell casting could have an level 7 occult slot -- 4 levels above what they're capable of casting usually.
Thats pure interpretation unsupported by the rules - which is OK if that is how your groups plays. Personally I find such a style of GMing very hard to take as a player. To me it is saying:- sorry but you can't do anything I haven't thought of and approved first. Which would cause me to immediately leave a group.
The idea that a 7th level occult slot is a balance problem for a 20th level caster is wild. Thats a very modest increment to their power.
I would say that the slot should be typed based on whichever list you're using to qualify for the slot.
It is a familiar ability that is granting the slot. The familiar may or may not have come from the Witch Archetype (remember, Magus has a Familiar feat as well). But the familiar ability does not specify a tradition.
Otherwise you open the potential of players gaining slots for traditions significantly above the level they can cast. A level 20 arcane spellcaster with the basic witch spell casting could have an level 7 occult slot -- 4 levels above what they're capable of casting usually.
If the familiar ability is giving a 7th level slot, but the Witch Archetype doesn't have 7th level spells yet, then the player would be rather silly to choose Occult for the spell slot - they wouldn't have a spell to fill it with. They could either choose a spell slot level that they could fill with one of their Witch spells, or they could fill their 7th level slot with one of their Magus spells. Neither choice seems game-breaking to me.
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Thats pure interpretation unsupported by the rules - which is OK if that is how your groups plays. Personally I find such a style of GMing very hard to take as a player. To me it is saying:- sorry but you can't do anything I haven't thought of and approved first. Which would cause me to immediately leave a group.
The idea that a 7th level occult slot is a balance problem for a 20th level caster is wild. Thats a very modest increment to their power.
Except for the rule that states that if it's too good to be true it probably is. Access to higher level magic in a given tradition is gated almost exclusively behind class feats. A single familiar ability probably shouldn't replace one or two multiclass archetypes feats. The interaction you're hinting at (gaining access to slots and spells several levels above your base casting level in a tradition) isn't patterned anywhere else in the rules.
I don't think my reading is particularly extreme: but you do you.
To be clear: I am saying the player should be able to pick the list if they have multiple. I agree the familiar doesn't care. But the slot they get (and what goes in it) should be based on how much the player invested in the chosen tradition.
The thing I object to is your assertion it is too good to be true. It just doesn't seem reasonable.
If I'm a level 20 caster, I already have 10 spells of level 7 or higher. Plus wands, potions, scrolls and oher items in that power range as well. Adding one level 7 slot is not a big deal no matter how it happens or what tradition it is. I'm probably not even going to cast it as I'll have better things to do.
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I would say that the slot should be typed based on whichever list you're using to qualify for the slot. So if you're using your arcane 7th level casting to get a 4th level slot, you're getting an arcane spell in the example above. If you want to use Occult, you get a 1st level slot.
Otherwise you open the potential of players gaining slots for traditions significantly above the level they can cast. A level 20 arcane spellcaster with the basic witch spell casting could have an level 7 occult slot -- 4 levels above what they're capable of casting usually.
Sure, and that's the kind of shenanigans I was talking about before, but consider...
- It means that, as a level 20 arcane spellcaster, one of your feats is tied up in giving you a first, second, and third level slot... and you didn't follow it up to claim the rest of the spellcasting benefits. For a lvl 20 character, that's pretty weak.- Your casting proficiency in occult is still only trained.
- You need it to be a spontaneous caster so that you have a signature spell, or else you don't actually have any spells known that you can cast a lvl 7 spell with.
So... as someone capable of casting lvl 10 spells, you've spent a few feats in moderately inefficient ways to be able to cast a single lvl 1-3 spell, heightened up to 7, from outside of your own tradition, at trained proficiency. That's not a particularly strong play.
At that point, if it makes the minmax goblin that dwells in someone's heart giggle with glee at having managed to cheat the rules? Seriously, let them have that moment. It's not like it's going to break the game in any way for anyone else.
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I wouldn't allow a lvl 20 wizard to get an additional lvl 7 spell for its divine tradition from a cleric dedication
IMO, that doesn't make any sense as the familiar isn't tied to any tradition/class. What would you rule if the familiar was from an ancestry instead of a dedication? And if it's different, why?
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I have the feel you didn't entirely read my entirely post ( I answered that in the part you didn't quote ).
I read [quickly] it but I might have misunderstood something. I reread it later when I have more time.