Some questions about my playing pf2


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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1. How do you think to solve the problem that pf2 fights for more than 3 hours and PC are distracted when they are playing?
2. How do you think to solve the problem that the players are unwilling to consume items to solve the battle that can be simply solved by consuming items leads to extremely slow game speed?
3. What do you think will make the game boring?
4. Do you think it is right to interpret the rules strictly according to the literal meaning?
5. How many times do you think you play your game a week?
6. How do you think the funds will be inherited after TPK?
7. Do you think it is normal for PC to die in every battle?
8. To what extent do you think players are too powerful?
9. Do you think the PCs should fight room by room or allow PCs to skip encounters in various ways?


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These are pretty leading questions and I don't agree with the base premise of a few of them. Nonetheless, for the sake of others, do you have any context behind these questions?


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1. It has been extremely rare that a fight goes anywhere near that long, and distracted players has never been much of a thing at my table.
2. I solved the issue of my play group's members that weren't interested in using consumable items by drawing up a complete list of unused consumables at the end of a particularly long campaign years ago and showing them the 65 lines (many of which were multiple count of the same item) of "...but what if we need it later?" - the whole group is now aware that there is no later; there is use it as soon as you find an excuse, or you are wasting time/effort/money on it. So they don't fail to use consumables, and they don't play slowly as a result.
3. Boring people playing it.
4. Literal meaning? No. Their spirit and purpose? Strict as can be.
5. An average of 3.
6. They won't. Dead money don't spend. New characters = new wealth.
7. Every battle? No. Any battle? Yes.
8. To no extent in this set of rules.
9. There is no "skip encounters." There are only encounters and a wide variety of ways to deal with them that I won't even start to list because by the time I got to what I think is the end of the list players will have devised a new one. Encounter doesn't mean combat, by the way. Combat is just one of many types of encounter. And the characters get the same XP no matter which way they get through an encounter.

That should sufficient unload all the loaded questions and provide answers.


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As Alfa/Polaris wrote, these feel a bit leading, and at many tables many have a false premise. Slow combats for example is not a trait of PF2, it's a trait of RPGing & casual tables (which is not a problem per se), except for some narrative-focused ones.

1. That is a problem (assuming the players think so!) solved by keeping focus on the board, and there are umpteen ways to solve this depending on player personalities. RPGing advice sites have tons of essays and tips, so it'd be difficult to address that multitude of methods in a single thread.
One thing I do is cut table-talk during battles, especially out-of-character discussions about tactics or real-life stuff. The PCs can shout to each other, meaning the enemies can hear, but not going to waste time on deliberating. In worst case scenarios I've skipped players, like if too consumed in their phones that they miss their initiative count (like in PFS as nobody like that would be invited again to a home game). In turn, I keep my monsters' turns brief, though yes, context will change where rigor gives way to mature cooperation.

2. Is players managing their own resources a problem? No. Nor do I think that'd be the root of the issue.

3. Boring in RPGs is subjective, much like in movies or books. Ask your players.

4. PF2 (unlike its predecessors) specifically says not to read the rules in a legalistic sense, but as everyday language. By RAW, RAW is no longer king in PF2. And yes, this has led to there being wiggle room in many areas where the GM needs to adjudicate. Yet even in the most rigorous system this has always been true anyway. PF2 expects reasonable agency from its GMs.

5. Is this survey? Not interested.

6. Too contextual to answer. The narrative & worldbuilding should already supply such answers.

7. It is atypical for a PC to die every battle, assuming standard level progression, threat levels, etc. I have heard of some campaigns where battles are rarer and far more pivotal, and PCs are more prone to die, yet even then 1 PC/battle would be harsh (maybe even harsher since players would tend to be more invested in the RPing aspects).

8. By players I hope you mean PCs, and since power is relative, this again is too contextual to answer. I've run campaigns where wall guards averaged 4th-5th level and all Hobgoblins outside of their homes were 6th+, and another where 9th level was apex. Yet that doesn't even get into the "too" portion, which IMO cannot apply since the GM can scale to suit the difficulty they desire.

9. Of course PCs should be allowed to skip encounters in various ways IF their actions justify such. Are you running a battle sim or an RPG adventure narrative?

---
A few too many of these sound odd...and I'd like to stress two themes that came up multiple times:
-PF2 can be tweaked to suit one's preferences or address one's worries. You aren't beholden to any standards others might have, except those built around the group's consensus.
-Giving player's agency is perhaps the most important trait of good GMing (which includes not letting them rob other players of agency, a.k.a. telling others what their PCs should do). Make their choices matter, and they'll invest more in making good choices (assuming mature participants that is, which IMO is mandatory!).

Shadow Lodge

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a1551962451@126.com wrote:
1. How do you think to solve the problem that pf2 fights for more than 3 hours and PC are distracted when they are playing?

If your fights are routinely taking 3+ hours, something is not going as intended.

a) Are you running a published adventure, or are these home-brewed adventures?
b) Did the PCs start with 18 or 16 in their primary attack stat?
c) How many players do you have? The more you have, the longer fights tend to take once you adjust for party size...
a1551962451@126.com wrote:
2. How do you think to solve the problem that the players are unwilling to consume items to solve the battle that can be simply solved by consuming items leads to extremely slow game speed?

Consumables are very expensive in PF2 so don't be shocked when PCs are reluctant to use them unless absolutely necessary. Also, using consumables often takes too long for too little effect (stow your weapon, draw the consumable, and use the consumable is an entire turn lost). Finally, a consumable used in one encounter leaves you more vulnerable in the next (as you have fewer consumable options).

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
3. What do you think will make the game boring?

We eventually hand-waived the actual downtime treat wounds checks (we assumed the PCs would be back up to full within 30 minutes or so rather than actually rolling each of the checks).

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
4. Do you think it is right to interpret the rules strictly according to the literal meaning?

Example? There are degrees of strictness...

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
5. How many times do you think you play your game a week?

Once at most.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
6. How do you think the funds will be inherited after TPK?

I'd assume the NPCs who killed the party will do whatever they want with the loot they just gained...

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
7. Do you think it is normal for PC to die in every battle?

No. A PC with the Dying condition is not unusual, but actual death is pretty rare (only had one fatality in Age of Ashes, and that was from a 'Make two saves, die if you fail both, and you can't be returned to life until the monster is defeated' encounter).

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
8. To what extent do you think players are too powerful?

Players or PCs? Assuming you mean PCs, the power comes with the genre...

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
9. Do you think the PCs should fight room by room or allow PCs to skip encounters in various ways?

If the PCs can skip an encounter, good for them (unless said encounter is important to the plot, of course). This possibly means less loot, which might make the party somewhat weaker in the long run...


thenobledrake wrote:
...a complete list of unused consumables at the end of a particularly long campaign years ago and showing them the 65 lines (many of which were multiple count of the same item) of "...but what if we need it later?" - the whole group is now aware that there is no later; there is use it as soon as you find an excuse, or you are wasting time/effort/money on it. So they don't fail to use consumables, and they don't play slowly as a result.

Thanks, I had a good laugh at this. I created a google spreadsheet for my players once for them to keep track of loot and split it. After they used it heavily to record but holy cow never to split, my running joke every time they said they were jotting it down was, "Oh, on the loot list where items go to die?" Never got better. Continued to be funny (to me at least).


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1. How do you think to solve the problem that pf2 fights for more than 3 hours and PC are distracted when they are playing?
I let them play video games during our Pathfinder games. Or bake cookies. When we switched from roleplaying at the same table to roleplaying online in March 2020, we gained more players as some of my former players in other states joined the game. With a 7-player game, everyone has to be patient during other players' turns. My players are always ready on their turns, so side entertainment is no problem.

2. How do you think to solve the problem that the players are unwilling to consume items to solve the battle that can be simply solved by consuming items leads to extremely slow game speed?
No. My players save consumables for extremely tough battles, so I can easily compare combat with consumables to combat without. The speed of gameplay does not change.

3. What do you think will make the game boring?
Restricting the game with arbitrary GM decisions would make it boring. I give my players lots of narrative control. Improvising around their plot twists keeps me interested.

4. Do you think it is right to interpret the rules strictly according to the literal meaning?
My players need to know what the rules are, so that they know what their characters' options are. If we decide on a more flexible interpretation, we make a houserule so that they clearly know the new rules.

5. How many times do you think you play your game a week?
We play once a week, Fridays at 6pm Eastern Daylight Time and 3pm Pacific Daylight Time (I have players spread across three US states). We skip holidays.

6. How do you think the funds will be inherited after TPK?
After a TOTAL party kill, their enemies will loot the PCs' bodies and future PCs will never see their funds. After the death of a single PC, the other PCs band together for a resurrection.

7. Do you think it is normal for PC to die in every battle?
I had exactly one PC death in the four Paizo adventure paths that I ran. My wife is a tactical mastermind. She teaches everyone else how to think tactically in roleplaying. Protecting teammates is a primary rule of her tactics.

8. To what extent do you think players are too powerful?
They are never more powerful in the game than the GM. I let them have enough narrative control that they can change the gods via good arguments: How can I remove slavery from Ironfang Invasion?

9. Do you think the PCs should fight room by room or allow PCs to skip encounters in various ways?
Expert tactics include information gathering and scouting to determine which encounters can be skipped without reducing the mission.

Dark Archive

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a1551962451@126.com wrote:

1. How do you think to solve the problem that pf2 fights for more than 3 hours and PC are distracted when they are playing?

2. How do you think to solve the problem that the players are unwilling to consume items to solve the battle that can be simply solved by consuming items leads to extremely slow game speed?
3. What do you think will make the game boring?
4. Do you think it is right to interpret the rules strictly according to the literal meaning?
5. How many times do you think you play your game a week?
6. How do you think the funds will be inherited after TPK?
7. Do you think it is normal for PC to die in every battle?
8. To what extent do you think players are too powerful?
9. Do you think the PCs should fight room by room or allow PCs to skip encounters in various ways?

1. They don't in any reasonable game.

2. Make sure they're decently rewarded, and it doesn't.
3. Uninvested players and GM.
4. Depends on the rules and situation.
5. 3-4 between multiple games.
6. Unless the GM wants to deal with a wealth imbalance, or reduce new character wealth, no.
7. No, luckily that never happens in PF2 games.
8. They're very well balanced in PF2.
9. Depends on what the players and GM want from the game, talk to one another, communication is key.

Also, maybe try thinking more about what you're asking and why, a lot of these questions are very leading and seem like you've made up your mind and want affirmation of your conclusions, that's a poor way to expand knowledge and learn.

Liberty's Edge

a1551962451@126.com wrote:

1. How do you think to solve the problem that pf2 fights for more than 3 hours and PC are distracted when they are playing?

2. How do you think to solve the problem that the players are unwilling to consume items to solve the battle that can be simply solved by consuming items leads to extremely slow game speed?
3. What do you think will make the game boring?
4. Do you think it is right to interpret the rules strictly according to the literal meaning?
5. How many times do you think you play your game a week?
6. How do you think the funds will be inherited after TPK?
7. Do you think it is normal for PC to die in every battle?
8. To what extent do you think players are too powerful?
9. Do you think the PCs should fight room by room or allow PCs to skip encounters in various ways?

Who are you ?

What do you want ?

Don't remember what the others were ;-)


a1551962451@126.com wrote:

1. How do you think to solve the problem that pf2 fights for more than 3 hours and PC are distracted when they are playing?

2. How do you think to solve the problem that the players are unwilling to consume items to solve the battle that can be simply solved by consuming items leads to extremely slow game speed?
3. What do you think will make the game boring?
4. Do you think it is right to interpret the rules strictly according to the literal meaning?
5. How many times do you think you play your game a week?
6. How do you think the funds will be inherited after TPK?
7. Do you think it is normal for PC to die in every battle?
8. To what extent do you think players are too powerful?
9. Do you think the PCs should fight room by room or allow PCs to skip encounters in various ways?

1) if some players are distracted and you want to put the blame on the system it's ok, but I think that's probably on the players. Whether it's the kind of system they don't like ( they may prefer less action and more rp / flavor) or that's because of a bad experience ( bad DM, the AP they are playing is not satisfying, etc... )

2) that's seems something compulsive or greed related. I'd go with some group therapy.

3) players not showing up at the right time, players not actively following the game and doing other stuff ( distracted). Being slow, given how the feat progression works, may end up in months before seeing an upgrade in terms of gameplay with your character.

4) I think it's right to play following the rules, but I also think rules have to be written in a proper way. Under this aspect, this 2e is literally outrageous ( either for the form the feats/rules are written, and total absence of weekly fix, a faq system, frequent errata, etc... ).

5) I play one evening per week ( irl).

6) All should belong to the enemies that killed the party. They deserved the loot as would have deserved the adventurers.

7) I think you might mean to go down ( gaining the dying condition) rather than die. If the former, yes. Especially for frontline characters. If the former, definitely not.

8) From what I have, seen until now, the more Paizo is going to release new books, the more powerful are going to be the characters. FA also would drastically increase its power the more the available feats.

9) room by room is the right way, but sometimes happened that encounters end up into some sort of Royal Rumble. It was extremely fun for either players and me, the DM.

Sovereign Court

a1551962451@126.com wrote:

1. How do you think to solve the problem that pf2 fights for more than 3 hours and PC are distracted when they are playing?

If a combat took 3 hours I'd get bored and distracted too. It's absolutely not normal for a combat to take that long. You need to look into WHY combats take so long.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:


2. How do you think to solve the problem that the players are unwilling to consume items to solve the battle that can be simply solved by consuming items leads to extremely slow game speed?

Could you give examples of consumables that speed up battles? Most consumables are some kind of bad circumstantial effect, or a mediocre healing effect. I don't use a lot of consumables because many of them are just bad value for money. Better to sell them and buy better items.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
3. What do you think will make the game boring?

Busywork, like rolling out healing if the party has invested in stuff like continual recovery or lay on hands that just makes it a matter of time.

Busywork encounters, like yet another patrol of the same enemies we ran into before, that don't add much to the story but that "have" to be fought (see point 9).

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
4. Do you think it is right to interpret the rules strictly according to the literal meaning?

NO. You should look at the intended, natural language meaning, not try to trap or block people with tortured and overly literal readings.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
5. How many times do you think you play your game a week?

Once or twice.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
6. How do you think the funds will be inherited after TPK?

TPKs are exceedingly rare. If the campaign actually continues after a TPK it would really depend on what kind of story is used to bring in the new party. Either they inherit (unlikely) or they start with new gear based on their level.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
7. Do you think it is normal for PC to die in every battle?

I think it's really really rare for a PC to actually die. Going to Dying but getting healed up is something that happens in a lot of early level combats but gets rarer later on because the party does get more powerful as they level up (and the players get more skillful at the game). This is as intended, leveling up SHOULD make you stronger.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
8. To what extent do you think players are too powerful?

The characters are not too strong. Whether you can win a fight against your PLAYERS depends on your general fitness and your friends. You probably don't want to take them on all at once.

a1551962451@126.com wrote:
9. Do you think the PCs should fight room by room or allow PCs to skip encounters in various ways?

This is a very revealing question, because it says a lot about how you view the game. I view it primarily as being about the characters and the story. The characters are on an adventure to accomplish some goal. There may be encounters that could stand in their way. It's up to the party to overcome that in any way they like. The goal of the party is to succeed at the adventure; not to mark off all the encounters.

For this reason I usually don't do XP per encounter, but use milestone XP; when the AP says "the PCs should be level X when they enter area Y" they level up when they manage that. If the AP's story sounds urgent and you find a way to bypass some obstacles and get to Y faster, you level up earlier. Milestone XP allows you to focus on the story instead of on XP grinding.

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