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I really like malignant sustenance for a bones Oracle too, fast healing along with temp HP and damage resistance is awesome.Needs an undead creature to work. Bones oracle isn't technically undead, just has negative healing.
Isn't this the same concept as Harm needing a willing a undead creature as a target for its healing? Yet I'm sure most of us allow Harm to heal a dhampir.
I think you're right based on the negative healing trait. It treats you as if you are undead. Malignant sustenance is pretty good then for bones.
In fairness, it’s not totally clear as written, but aggregated context clues from different passages point to it working like that afaik. It’s also less convoluted that way so I’m biased.
Negative healing states : "healed by negative effects that heal undead."
Malignant sustenance fits the description exactly. So, yes, it works.
The problem isn't on whether Malignant Sustenance will heal a negative-healing creature. The problem is that Malignant Sustenance has a targeting rule that it can only target undead creatures.
That said, I would still allow it to work in my games.
Funny fact : If you have Negative healing, you will never suffer from the Negative weakness of Lifegiving form (Life mystery).
That is amusing. And there is nothing in the Life Oracle curse that prevents either this interaction or for negative-healing characters from choosing the Mystery.
I don't think a Dhampir Life Oracle makes sense, but a Revenant background Life Oracle actually kinda does.
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The Dhampir explicitly has "You have the negative healing ability, which means you are harmed by positive damage and healed by negative effects as if you were undead."
I take the latter clarification as meaning that you do count as a target undead creature for these effects.
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Negative healing states : "healed by negative effects that heal undead."
Malignant sustenance fits the description exactly. So, yes, it works.
The problem isn't on whether Malignant Sustenance will heal a negative-healing creature. The problem is that Malignant Sustenance has a targeting rule that it can only target undead creatures.
That said, I would still allow it to work in my games.
Funny fact : If you have Negative healing, you will never suffer from the Negative weakness of Lifegiving form (Life mystery).That is amusing. And there is nothing in the Life Oracle curse that prevents either this interaction or for negative-healing characters from choosing the Mystery.
I don't think a Dhampir Life Oracle makes sense, but a Revenant background Life Oracle actually kinda does.
I would flavor a Dhampir Life Oracle as someone who contacted the positive plane while being exsanguinated by a vampire and on the brink of death (or maybe a bit further). Bright wave of positive energy that destroys the vampire but the vampiric curse was already too embedded for the PC to come back completely unscathed.
Harm also has that targeting rule.
Harm actually allows targeting both undead and living creatures.
A strict RAW reading of Harm would allow the targeting of a Dhampir because it is a living creature. Then the spell effect would see that the creature is living and would attempt to deal negative damage to it - which wouldn't have any effect because of the immunity to negative damage that negative healing gives.
It wouldn't see the Dhampir as undead because the Dhampir is not undead, so it wouldn't attempt to restore HP to the Dhampir target.
It is a known bug and like yarrchives said, no one actually runs the game that way.
What we really need is errata for the negative healing rule to 1) allow (caster's choice) for spells to target a negative-healing creature as though they were undead, and 2) for spell effects to treat the negative-healing creature as though it is undead if that has a different effect than treating the creature as a living creature (spells would still treat the creature as living if that is the only effect).
That would fix both Harm and Malignant Sustenance. And probably a handful of other spells.
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The RAI is pretty clear then. I guess the RAW could use a touch up for it. I think a decent errata would just update the spells in question to target undead creatures OR creatures with negative healing.
That is a lot of errata text though. And future spell rule writers will have to remember to add that interaction manually for every new spell that affects or targets undead creatures.
Errata on the Negative Healing rule should be able to be effective if done right. And it would be a one-time change in one place.
I really like malignant sustenance for a bones Oracle too, fast healing along with temp HP and damage resistance is awesome.
The only way to get a Focus spell from another class is through a archetype dedication, right? (Sorry, been away from the game for a while, and my old brain is bad at remembering.)
Oracles can get an advanced domain spell with domain fluency at 12th level. They start with an initial one based on the 2 domains the mystery gives
Ugh. Of course. Sorry for the stupid question.
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I really like malignant sustenance for a bones Oracle too, fast healing along with temp HP and damage resistance is awesome.The only way to get a Focus spell from another class is through a archetype dedication, right? (Sorry, been away from the game for a while, and my old brain is bad at remembering.)
Yes, normally getting a focus spell from a different class requires archetype of that class.
Oracle (and Champion I think) can get some of the Cleric focus spells (Domain spells) in-class.
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I forget about the free extra focus spell oracles get all the time. Love the variety in focus spells (and the free refocus feats later). Definitely the best focus spell class
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With the Sanguine Mist and Cloudkill ideas, now I want to make a Bones Oracle with a Sylph Versatile Heritage with the Smokesoul and Cloud Gazer feats. I love the idea of a death-connected Oracle standing/walking around in constant fogs. I'm not sure how to expand on the idea though. Maybe some wands/scrolls to get a Obscuring Mist.
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With the Sanguine Mist and Cloudkill ideas, now I want to make a Bones Oracle with a Sylph Versatile Heritage with the Smokesoul and Cloud Gazer feats. I love the idea of a death-connected Oracle standing/walking around in constant fogs. I'm not sure how to expand on the idea though. Maybe some wands/scrolls to get a Obscuring Mist.
Obscuring Mist isn't on the Divine tradition. Trick Magic Item would let you cast it from scrolls, but a wand would be outdone by a Horn of Fog.
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I’m always surprised when I remember Obscuring Mist is not available through Divine Access.
Anyway, Solid Fog is another fog option through Hanspur, available to Bones through the Death domain. It creates difficult terrain so movement through can be a pain, but that goes for your enemies as well. I didn’t take it on my Bones, but I loved it in my Tempest Oracle. With Hanspur, it comes with Aqueous Orb; two fun control spells for one deity is quite the deal.
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I forget about the free extra focus spell oracles get all the time. Love the variety in focus spells (and the free refocus feats later). Definitely the best focus spell class
On top of that, any archetype that grants focus spells has phenomenal synergy with the Oracle. Those focus spells not being cursebound and given your free refocus feats, your options with your focus pool becomes incredibly diverse.
My best example is the Blessed One archetype. For just one feat, you get a non-cursebound healing focus spell. It’s amazing when you have excess focus points but can’t afford to enter a certain curse level. At later levels, the Divine Inspiration spell can replenish your focus pool but does not reset your curse. Not a problem when you have a non-cursebound focus spell.
You can basically treat these archetypes as honarary Oracle feats. Because of that, the release of one is also an exciting moment for the class, and I hope there are more to come.
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What are some fun ways to flavor a oracles curse outside of the given flavor of it? I'm playing a battle oracle and I like to describe the damage he takes is proportional to what is currently attacking him but is inexplicable in how it effects him such as pulling an spectral arrow out of his shoulder after fighting some definitely not archers.
That’s very creative Battle. I wouldn’t have thought of that, but it’s now noted.
Lots of options based on ancestry as well, at least yhat’s what I do. For a Bones Leshy, I went for the obvious rotting plant. I also played a Cosmos Root Leshy that, much to his dismay, had a hard time staying grounded despite his natural root system. For a Life Leshy, I had an onion Leshy constantly growing and shedding their many layers. I also figured this was why they were difficult to heal, having no stable form to truly patch up.
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I also played a Cosmos Root Leshy that, much to his dismay, had a hard time staying grounded despite his natural root system.
I've been looking to play a depressed Mushroom (Fungal Leshy)character for a while now. Cosmic Oracle is perfect thanks.
I've been looking to play a depressed Mushroom (Fungal Leshy)character for a while now. Cosmic Oracle is perfect thanks.
Heh, that reminds me of my first Oracle, a Cosmos Fungus Leshy named Earth Stargazer based on the earth star fungi. I made him just because of the name and nothing else but he turned out to be lots of fun.
It's been fun. The fast healing is superficial wounds "overriding" more serious wounds as it's difficult for his body to keep track of what's actually hurting. You like leshy characters then? Lol. They're pretty cool. Versatile heritages are fun to rationalize for them too. Dhampir as a venus flytrap is a good one.
Ooo that’s neat. Some sort of spectral scarring. Have you had to go major cursed yet? It’s often a last resort, but I’m curious how you’d flavor that one.
And yeah, I couldn’t resist playing such an aesthetically unique ancestry. I get to squeeze in other ancestries here and there. I love my Orc Oracle that I only made so I can say I’m playing an Orcle. It’s actuallly with the Oracle I spam the most Leshies in; the ancestry fits very well with the class.
I forget about the free extra focus spell oracles get all the time. Love the variety in focus spells (and the free refocus feats later). Definitely the best focus spell classOn top of that, any archetype that grants focus spells has phenomenal synergy with the Oracle. Those focus spells not being cursebound and given your free refocus feats, your options with your focus pool becomes incredibly diverse.
My best example is the Blessed One archetype. For just one feat, you get a non-cursebound healing focus spell. It’s amazing when you have excess focus points but can’t afford to enter a certain curse level. At later levels, the Divine Inspiration spell can replenish your focus pool but does not reset your curse. Not a problem when you have a non-cursebound focus spell.
You can basically treat these archetypes as honarary Oracle feats. Because of that, the release of one is also an exciting moment for the class, and I hope there are more to come.
I love the spell divine inspiration, on my sorcerer I'm planning on picking it up through crossblooded. But are we sure it doesn't lower your curse? I don't really see why it wouldn't.
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I love the spell divine inspiration, on my sorcerer I'm planning on picking it up through crossblooded. But are we sure it doesn't lower your curse? I don't really see why it wouldn't.
Because it doesn't say that it does. It only says that the character gains focus points. The same number of focus points that it would gain from refocusing. But it doesn't say that you actually refocus. And it is the refocus activity that reduces the Oracle curse.
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I love the spell divine inspiration, on my sorcerer I'm planning on picking it up through crossblooded. But are we sure it doesn't lower your curse? I don't really see why it wouldn't.I forget about the free extra focus spell oracles get all the time. Love the variety in focus spells (and the free refocus feats later). Definitely the best focus spell classOn top of that, any archetype that grants focus spells has phenomenal synergy with the Oracle. Those focus spells not being cursebound and given your free refocus feats, your options with your focus pool becomes incredibly diverse.
My best example is the Blessed One archetype. For just one feat, you get a non-cursebound healing focus spell. It’s amazing when you have excess focus points but can’t afford to enter a certain curse level. At later levels, the Divine Inspiration spell can replenish your focus pool but does not reset your curse. Not a problem when you have a non-cursebound focus spell.
You can basically treat these archetypes as honarary Oracle feats. Because of that, the release of one is also an exciting moment for the class, and I hope there are more to come.
Based on the wording of Divine Inspiration, you do not actually refocus (which would lower the curse) : you only regain focus points as if you had refocused.
Aah I see. That'll show me to not check something and go by my memory. I thought it straight up said you refocus. So not that great of a spell for an oracle.
Aah I see. That'll show me to not check something and go by my memory. I thought it straight up said you refocus. So not that great of a spell for an oracle.
Ironic with it being the most focus spelly class we have. At least it’s only this one corner case.
I’m surprised there isn’t an actual combat refocus yet. Divine inspiration is the closest and it isn’t one technically. Maybe they planned on refocusing triggering many other things so it’s future-proofing for those?
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I’m surprised there isn’t an actual combat refocus yet. Divine inspiration is the closest and it isn’t one technically. Maybe they planned on refocusing triggering many other things so it’s future-proofing for those?
Just like there is no way to mid-combat get rid of the Wounded condition. I don't think it's an accident that it doesn't exist.
Just like there is no way to mid-combat get rid of the Wounded condition. I don't think it's an accident that it doesn't exist.
The most we get is prevention, like effects that prevent wounded from increasing when you remove dying.
We have an orc oracle in my AoA game too. She wound up joining our group because she left her clan in shame after realizing the life energy she constantly radiated was causing her fellow orcs' scars to fade away and heal up. With scarification being a big status symbol among orcs, it didn't make Dura Scar-Taker very popular among her friends.
Love it. The RP potential and variety of the curses is always a joy to both play and witness.
Do you know how long her clan tolerated her curse, or was the curse more of a recent occurence?
Just like there is no way to mid-combat get rid of the Wounded condition. I don't think it's an accident that it doesn't exist.The most we get is prevention, like effects that prevent wounded from increasing when you remove dying.
We have an orc oracle in my AoA game too. She wound up joining our group because she left her clan in shame after realizing the life energy she constantly radiated was causing her fellow orcs' scars to fade away and heal up. With scarification being a big status symbol among orcs, it didn't make Dura Scar-Taker very popular among her friends.Love it. The RP potential and variety of the curses is always a joy to both play and witness.
Do you know how long her clan tolerated her curse, or was the curse more of a recent occurence?
One idea I’d like to try at some point is an Undine Flames Oracle who is constantly wreathed in Steam. Hopefully, the GM would let me reflavor the Mistsoul lineage to Steamsoul.
On an unrelated note…
Aah I see. That'll show me to not check something and go by my memory. I thought it straight up said you refocus. So not that great of a spell for an oracle.Ironic with it being the most focus spelly class we have. At least it’s only this one corner case.
I’m surprised there isn’t an actual combat refocus yet. Divine inspiration is the closest and it isn’t one technically. Maybe they planned on refocusing triggering many other things so it’s future-proofing for those?
There are a few abilities that let you get Focus Points back mid-combat. The two I can remember right now are the Energized Font gnome feat and the Familiar Focus familiar ability.
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Funny enough, I Find those options good specifically because they don't actually refocus you. You get to keep your higher level curse benefits without losing the ability to cast focus spells, which is really handy.
Funny enough, I Find those options good specifically because they don't actually refocus you. You get to keep your higher level curse benefits without losing the ability to cast focus spells, which is really handy.
Only focus spells from an archetype though, right? An Oracle generally already has enough focus points to cast themselves into burnout.
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Yeah but without lowering your curse you can't cast too many without getting overwhelmed. So even if you regain focus points you can't cast too many cursebound spells.
There is a way to reduce your curse mid-combat for all of these mid-combat focus point recoveries. The one and only way is with Scapegoat Parallel Self from Fists of the Ruby Phoenix. Disclaimer: It's a level 20 feat.
Yeah but without lowering your curse you can't cast too many without getting overwhelmed. So even if you regain focus points you can't cast too many cursebound spells.
That reminds me of this interesting quirk with the Mystery Conduit feat that someone pointed out to me the other day.
It turns <5th level spells w/ no duration cursebound. NOT turned into a revelation spell, just gains the cursebound trait. This is important because the only act that makes you overwhelmed is casting a revelation spell. Since those spells aren't considered as revelation spells and only mimics their functionality through cursebound, they technically shouldn't overwhelm you or be disallowed to cast while overwhelmed.
I think it's an obvious bug, and the intent is that it's supposed to count as a revelation spell as far as curse rules go. I also posed that you technically shouldn't be able to advance your curse once maxed out or already overwhelmed.
Yeah but without lowering your curse you can't cast too many without getting overwhelmed. So even if you regain focus points you can't cast too many cursebound spells.That reminds me of this interesting quirk with the Mystery Conduit feat that someone pointed out to me the other day.
It turns <5th level spells w/ no duration cursebound. NOT turned into a revelation spell, just gains the cursebound trait. This is important because the only act that makes you overwhelmed is casting a revelation spell. Since those spells aren't considered as revelation spells and only mimics their functionality through cursebound, they technically shouldn't overwhelm you or be disallowed to cast while overwhelmed.
I think it's an obvious bug, and the intent is that it's supposed to count as a revelation spell as far as curse rules go. I also posed that you technically shouldn't be able to advance your curse once maxed out or already overwhelmed.
Heh. That is an interesting bug.
And yeah, it is obviously a bug. The intent being that 'overwhelmed' is a state of the Oracular curse that can be progressed to. So anything that progresses your curse (not just Revelation spells) can progress the curse to the overwhelmed state.
Heh. That is an interesting bug.
And yeah, it is obviously a bug. The intent being that 'overwhelmed' is a state of the Oracular curse that can be progressed to. So anything that progresses your curse (not just Revelation spells) can progress the curse to the overwhelmed state.
It’s actually written like the aforementioned Divine Inspiration which indicates it recovers focus points like refocus without actually refocusing. In this case, the spell is a revelation in function but not in name.
Yeah, I am aware of the bug.
Currently Mystery Conduit says that it progresses your curse as though it was a Revelation Spell but doesn't actually turn the spell into a Revelation Spell. And Oracular Curse says that it only causes the overwhelmed state when you cast a Revelation Spell while at your maximum curse progression - not anything else that you cast.
So there are two places to fix the bug at. One would be it Mystery Conduit - make it actually cause the spell to be cast as a Revelation Spell that costs 0 focus points. But that is a bit clunky and isn't future proof.
I think the better place to fix the bug is in Oracular Curse. Turn overwhelmed into a curse state that anything that progresses your curse can progress you to. That would fix Mystery Conduit without any wording change in that feat, and would mean that any future feats that let an Oracle cast things by progressing their curse would work out-of-the-box without any special wording needed.
The intent being that 'overwhelmed' is a state of the Oracular curse that can be progressed to. So anything that progresses your curse (not just Revelation spells) can progress the curse to the overwhelmed state.
I'm not entirely convinced that the intent is not reflected in the text. If something progresses your curse like a revelation spell, it should progress you to overwhelmed.