My table is the greatest table of all time. Every combat is against a APL + 6 invisible undead construct dragon vescavor swarm with lightning bolts shooting out of its eyes and takes place underwater in deeper darkness and an antimagic field but also flying! Furthermore, every player will need to have at least 8 skill points per level or you’re a useless murderhobo sack of s$&@ and will fail all of the instant death skill checks of which there are at least 4 per encounter day. After all, there is absolutely no room for any amount of character weaknesses at MY TABLE! There will be roughly 14 encounters per day in exactly 1 hour intervals to ensure all of your buffs wear off. You must be fully prepared for literally all possibilities at ALL TIMES or you are STUPID and don’t deserve to play at MY TABLE!
... Also I hate power gamers. If I see any amount of optimization, that player will be banned immediately.
I am genuinely curious as to what prompted this and as equally motivated to avoid whatever level of the Nine Hells this hypocritical gaming table exists in.
If you find some thread so disagreeable, you can stop reading it, or even hide it.
There is no reason to gnaw your liver and continue reading it.
Even I sometimes abandon a thread when I feel that further /discussion/ headbutting a wall on both sides isn't getting anywhere.
Yeah this is mostly a reaction to a collection of small instances I’ve seen on these forums throughout the last few years where GMs seem to simultaneously
A) Take pride in creating extremely punishing campaigns and
B) Openly disdain character optimization
It was an extreme example, I’ve never played in anything quite that bad. However, I’ve definitely played in campaigns where my GM would ridicule powergaming but create a situation where it’s impossible NOT to powergame. Like I would happily create a suboptimal character if they didn’t instantly explode.
Hey Mikemad, as a player... do you know what your character looks like? Do your characters have friends/significant others, hobbies, favorite colors, or goals that aren't just leveling? If so, you're a complete departure from all of the players in my current campaigns.
I don't make PUNISHING campaigns, but I don't pull punches either. More than that though, I write homebrew campaigns that are mostly meant to run as sandboxes. There's plenty going on in the background for players to insert their characters into, with plenty of empty space, both physically and narrative-wise for the players to create their own stuff.
My players however are all about the mechanics. Their businesses didn't have names for a while, but the players all knew what their bonuses were; the paladin's mount was "war bull" until I demanded a description of it; one of the campaigns involves a swamp druid who at level 10 still lives in a city in a Shack room he built at level 1.
This is all a long winded way of saying, I feel your pain.
As a GM, I wouldn't take pride in making every encounter extremely punishing but I do become dismayed if every combat is a cake walk for the party.
I think the 1st thing to do in many cases is restrict access to sources for players, and allow more based on specific requests. I wrote up house rules a long time ago.
Let's face if, you can make broke AF characters of every sort with the right source books. Restricting the sources can help (some). Having a gentleman's agreement with your players to not go HAM is probably the best way.
I often remind my players that I am aiming for a certain level of difficulty for different encounters, and I will ensure the encounter is that difficult regardless of how powerful you (and the party) are. I am the almighty GM, there is no limit to how powerful an enemy I can send at you. But my goal is not to beat you, but to provide a challenge to overcome for a rewarding adventure experience.
Unless I know going into a campaign that it is intended to be a meat-grinder, I do not take kindly to overly punishing difficulties. I've at a stage in my experience as a player (and GM) that I enjoy the overall narrative more than I do the mechanical aspects of gameplay. I don't structure a character around 'builds' anymore when I envision a character. I create an individual, a person, and use the mechanics to influence the way that character develops.
Don't get me wrong. I still get a great deal of enjoyment from the mechanical aspects of the game, and spend much more time than I should seeing how all of the pieces work together in theoretical optimization. But, I always dial it back down when I actually play in a campaign. I don't need unlimited cosmic power to have fun.
So, when I run a game, I am not stingy with loot. Players often have almost twice as much wealth per level than they should (which is often reinvested into the community through the downtime rules). I reward roleplay and narrative development. I have all the resources I need to make the game challenging for any power level of character. But what I enjoy is letting the players feel their characters are powerful and, at the same time, bring to their realization that not everything they care about in the world is as powerful or as safe as they are. They have real reasons to care about the world and for wanting to save it. Even in Evil games, this is true.
Hey Mikemad, as a player... do you know what your character looks like? Do your characters have friends/significant others, hobbies, favorite colors, or goals that aren't just leveling? If so, you're a complete departure from all of the players in my current campaigns.
Actually I like these questions.
For all of the characters I enjoyed playing, I could awnswer them really quickly, for all the characters where this was not the case, nope.
Favorite colors maybe not as much, but yeah, my chars tend to have one possible NPC love interest, one somewhat stronger NPC adversary, one hobbie and some frequently prank based goal.
For the chars I am currently playing:
(Beyond morality Succubus Sniper in a high powered mythic campaign):
(IC reply)
"Discussing my beautifull CHA 36 appearance would unfortunately devolve into non PG-13 purple prose, but as to your other question:"
"Yes, I have the Soviet equivalent of the dirty dozen as my willing vasalls, after having prototyped a "f*@*ing flamethrower" that is refuelable by sexual energy (Thank you most gracious Liege Lady Shamira) embarked on the epic quest of kickstart starting Abyssal Katjuscha Rocket Mortar production to deal with a Qlippoth invasion.
I really need to be carefull or Shamira will steal Combat Engineer Zaitsev. Also, Commisar Okjabriski somehow aquired the ability to "smite class enemies", its party wide os its really useful, and I think "class enemy" is actually whoever looks at him funny.
I do enjoy military history, hunting, and landscape gardening with heavy siege artillery, particularly if its somebody elses landscape.
My favorite colors are red and green, my goal is to become a demon lord and also to prank Queen of Pain-in-the-Arse Doloras so hard she upgrades the infernal bounty on my head. I think i will infiltrate hell and replace her high heels with rubber mimics."
Askold Beerfiend Magnuson Skald in wrath of the righteous.:
PnP Campaign: "Askold Beerfiend Magnuson" Skald in wrath of the righteous.
IC Reply.
Appearance:"I am big, tall, look like a permanently drunk Barbarian metal frontman which is in part because I am a permanently drunk Barbarian metal frontman."
Relations: "Nothing romantic yet, I am quite fond of my half sister and really scared of my tribal chief, dont get along my with half brother and our loremaster is probably some demon worshipping cultist, she throws good parties though."
Hobbies:"As my name indicates, well, Beer spontaenously disappears in my presence. I sing, but thats more of a job. Linguistics are fun, did you know that Infernal has 19 different politeness forms depending on social status of speaker, spoken to, and listeners?"
Goals: "Close the worldwound, in a way that will make the Abyssal chucklef%~+s think twice about pulling that stunt again. Perhaps by turning Nocticulas swimming pool into booze and claiming Baphomet did it. I mean, it cant be worse then standard crusader tactics, right?"
Dylan ap Dryfedd Chaotic Evil Bloodrager in Way of the Wicked.:
PnP campaign "
Appearance:"I am big, tall, and look like Alice Cooper transmogrified with Arnold Schwarzenegger. There totally isnt a theme about being big and tall :). I am not actually permanently drunk, as I prefer other drugs."
Hobbies:"Half of a lifetime of doing deeific obediences to Nocticula and Gorrum, often at the same time especially if already drunk, has endowed me with a truely encyclopaedic knowledge of making potent mind altering drugs out of random things on the dungeon floor. I guess you could call me a hobby botanist/chemist/Iron Chef? I am also really interested in the interaction between Hallucinogenic Mushrooms and loud accustic percussion."
Significant others:"My friend "Snörri the greasemonger" is totally not a slightly altered Skald (Hi Beerfiend) I play in another campaign, and thus has a fair bunch of easily transplantable background. Oh, I am also planning to meet Lady Ashara, a most charming and friendly Succubus again, but I really need to aquire a steadly supply of Litheria blossoms or a cleric cohort capable of casting Death Ward first."
Goals: "I was planning to come back as a Balor after death and burn the realm of Talingarde in a fire made over their own arse-holes, but apparently I can do so while alive! Yay me! Last but not least, I am to amuse our Lady in Shadows with a series of very very amusing foolhardy dating decisions."
PbP campaign Eric de St. Cyr Chaotic Good Skald in Return of the runelords:
(just starting).
Appearance: "I am relatively lanky, but this effectively hides my considerable strength, long dark but blonde colored hair to obscure my Galtese descent."
Significant others:"I have left all but my soul behind when I fled Galt. Calistria permitting, perhaps I will chance to grace the face of my love Cyrine de Bergerac again, but I believe this could only happen in Elysium."
Hobbies:"I have begun studiying archeology and history, and am intrugied by Thassilonian mysteries. Perhaps the unusual political climate of my home land is partly due to the influence of envy and wrath magic?"
I truely hope to understand the history behind all these things!
Also known as the one character who does not try to prank everyone all the time.
