Just a Reminder

[Rysky]

Simply deleting posts is not consequences nor moderation.

[captain yesterday]

Can we please stop with the public announcement threads.

We get it, people suck and don't know how to do internets right.

It just adds another place for everyone to argue and it distracts from Paizo's actual announcements, so please stop.

[Rysky]

We can stop when it's not needed.

Paizo has blogs for their actual announcements.

[captain yesterday]

Good news, it's not actually needed!

You're just giving them more work, which is something that everyone needs right now.

[Rysky]

Not needed? That's an assumption you're having.

[captain yesterday]

Yes, it's not needed.

They have an hour window in which you can delete a post, so as long they delete a post in that hour time frame then no moderation is needed. Pretty basic stuff, really. So I'm not sure why you felt the need to announce this or whatever it is you're doing.

[Rysky]

... that statement has nothing to do with anything.

[keftiu]

captain yesterday wrote:

Can we please stop with the public announcement threads.

We get it, people suck and don't know how to do internets right.

It just adds another place for everyone to argue and it distracts from Paizo's actual announcements, so please stop.

Nobody made you click on this thread.

[TOZ]

Or reply.

[Particular Jones]

It all depends on the rules of the forum. If it states they can do both then it is.

Which when initially registering we all agreed to follow.

So we either abide by them or look for another forum if we don’t like the rules.

Or to put it another way don’t post in such a way that breaks the rules than get shocked when they get applied to what was posted. It’s pretty standard on many forums to delete posts from those unwilling to abide by the rules of the forum.

[Rysky]

Irrelevant to what was posted.

Many forums also have genuine moderation in addition to removing offending posts.

[CorvusMask]

I do think its best to discuss these things with email over customer service because public nature of this means you can't be explicit about what you mean.

Like yeah I'm also like "Are they really going to let explicit slurs slide? Seriously?"

[keftiu]

CorvusMask wrote:

I do think its best to discuss these things with email over customer service because public nature of this means you can't be explicit about what you mean.

Like yeah I'm also like "Are they really going to let explicit slurs slide? Seriously?"

Where were outright slurs posted?

[Rysky]

I feel it's explicit enough as it's not directed at just any one post.

[Umbral Reaver]

Asking for better moderation is propaganda now?

[Rysky]

Umbral hit the nail on the head, I wasn't vague, I was rather explicit on the need for actual moderation.

I'm unfamiliar with what's going on with the "people deleting posts before the window" diatribe you're fixated on and is not what I'm referring to, the bigoted and callous posts have remained long after the edit window closed.

[Rysky]

You not understanding something rather obvious and coming in anyway to rant is a you issue.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

For some of us, this is a higher class of Titter.

EDIT: For clarity, I'm not on Falsebook, Twitter, TakTik, or any of those trendy places people go to these days to get informed about things. When a handful of folks come here with only their idea of 'Good' (which is anything but), it's frustrating and painful to see them appear to 'get away with something' while the rest of us are held to an apparent higher standard.

[Em0crash]

This is the most useless Thread I have ever seen on the Internet. And I was lurking 4chan for years.

A whole page of posts and replys and I have no Idea what you guys a talking about.

Some quality communication skills right here.

[Steve Geddes]

There have been many instances in recent weeks of people posting hateful or insulting comments. Those posts are often deleted but the poster continues to post on the forums. In several instances they’ve then gone on to repeat the behaviour in other threads.

The point rysky is making is that if I want to be mean to someone, I post something nasty, it stays there a while and is then deleted…..I haven’t actually suffered any consequence. Without bans or suspensions, it’s moderation that won’t actually affect my behaviour.

Sure my post is removed, but I didn’t care about that anyway - I just wanted to be mean and hurt my target which I’ve achieved.

[PreciousFlatbreads]

I am also new to these forums, but I am detecting an element of hypocrisy here.

The OP condemns people making insulting comments, and asks for more more severe consequences, by making insulting comments themself that they themself should now be subject to?

[Steve Geddes]

It’s in response to a lot of hateful vitriol being repeated over several weeks.

Rysky is not suggesting people be banned for impoliteness.

[PreciousFlatbreads]

I am sorry if I offend anyone with my words here.

[Rysky]

“New” but you know enough about the site to make an account called Pysky with my avatar and then change it after? Screenshots and time stamps are funny like that

[Not Very Rysky]

The nerve of some people!

[MadamReshi]

I find people's attitudes to moderation and forums strange here.

I have become somewhat active on forums such as enworld and rpg.net. Those places are both well moderated and warn users of infractions, publically, with quotes and without deleting posts. In addition, users are banned, sometimes permanently, if they break the rules.

I understand right now that the Paizo team is quite small and that they are under a lot of pressure and work to try and deal with current incidents. Removing posts to try and deal with incidents is logical in that situation and somewhat admirable; they have been some truly digusting things removed recently, that I can imagine have been upsetting to people.

However.

If users are not being banned for blatantly breaking community guidelines, and then their posts are being removed... then their behaviour is going to continue, as their intention is often to hurt specific people at specific times - which tehy wil lget away with if there is no longer term issue.

I have heard there are significant issues with Pazio accounts being linked to purchases, which I can see being an issue; I am not sure how viable it is to refactor how accounts work to separate user accounts and purchase accounts.

But this needs to be done, along with hiring more moderators and properly dealing with abusive and rude users. Otherwise, the forum's viasblility as a place to discuss Paizo and its products will be reduced.

[Cori Marie]

Not wanting hate speech isn't "wanting it slanted in (our) favor". It's wanting there to be some sort of consequence when someone directs hateful language at other members. Deleting posts but not actually stopping them from posting again in the future just encourages them to keep posting the same bile repeatedly, because all they get is a slap on the wrist with some purple words from a moderator saying "Please don't make more work for us." By not actively taking a firm hand, they're actively encouraging those posters to continue making more work for them.

[Rysky]

Please point out how I regularly break the rules.

Please point out how you came to the conclusion that “the rules apply evenly to everyone and I don’t like that”.

I want bigots banned, simple.

[vagrant-poet]

Particular Jones wrote:

I’m possibly wrong yet the OP has a pattern of posting in such a way that routinely breaks the rules and imo seems to not like the fact that the rules apply to everyone and anyone including himself. Not those who they disagree with.

From what I have seen in other threads some posters want moderation heavily slanted in their favour. In that they and those that they disagree with are exempt from any and all moderation even if they break forum rules. While those they disagree with even if they follow forum rules. If it was up to them they would ban anyone and anything simply because what was posted hurt their feelings and only that.

As for using Rpg.net yeah no that place is anything but properly moderated. They not only ban people for the slightest reason they also add an insult on the final post towards those they ban. If they say all police use excessive force and guns In every arrest and a posters shows the opposite one is banned. They actually made it a rule where one is permanently banned if one breaks that as a rule. You want this place to become like Rpg.net. Good luck this forum will become a wasteland.

Now if you want to hold up a forum with fair, objective moderation I would use the rpg pub as a good forum.

Deliberate misgendering/transphobia? [Check]

Police violence propagandist? [Check]
Clearly banned from a better moderated forum, and bitter about it -> Thus proving that they can be stopped from above behaviors by being banned? [Check]

Banning dogwhistle using reactionaries works. It makes spaces safer.

[Grankless]

Yeah, it's so weird the like the same 4 or 5 people posting openly reactionary garbage or blowing their dogwhistles extremely loudly keep getting threads closed and posts mass-deleted by intentionally inciting this stuff and yet they're all still walking around posting. Personally, I feel that if getting banned blocks you from accessing digital products... That's weird, but hey, good - that should be a motivation to act like a normal person and not post open vile bigotry that gets you banned. It is literally so easy to not get in trouble for posting bigoted content - you just don't do it! Just don't hit post.

But bigots and weird reactionaries like that should not be welcome in any space. Moderation works to foster a better community for everyone.

[Ashbourne]

If Pazio accounts are linked to purchases that makes for a big mess trying to moderate.

In Second life you have the option to block and mute other individual accounts yourself so you don't see what they're saying and they can't see what you're saying. It's at least quick personal protection from people being harmful without needing to wait for moderation.

(jokingly) I like to blame all the arguments on the forums on Paizo for not publishing a new 200-page book every day to keep us too busy to even read the forums.

I starting to think that for many here the community is the main product Paizo provides them. For me, I don't currently know anyone offline that plays starfinder or pathfinder and my work schedule makes it very hard to even try to meet new people offline, and until I can afford to replace my old and dying computer online play is not an option. So coming here to the Forums is what keeps me connected to the game until I can start playing it.

[Grankless]

Calling bigots bigots is not rude, it's a statement of fact. There's no rule on the forums that says I have to be nice to people who like to bully minorities.

[Cori Marie]

Ashbourne wrote:

If Pazio accounts are linked to purchases that makes for a big mess trying to moderate.

In Second life you have the option to block and mute other individual accounts yourself so you don't see what they're saying and they can't see what you're saying. It's at least quick personal protection from people being harmful without needing to wait for moderation.

(jokingly) I like to blame all the arguments on the forums on Paizo for not publishing a new 200-page book every day to keep us too busy to even read the forums.

I starting to think that for many here the community is the main product Paizo provides them. For me, I don't currently know anyone offline that plays starfinder or pathfinder and my work schedule makes it very hard to even try to meet new people offline, and until I can afford to replace my old and dying computer online play is not an option. So coming here to the Forums is what keeps me connected to the game until I can start playing it.

The problem with a block option is that while now I'm protected from their bigotry, other people aren't. That doesn't sit well with me.

[Grankless]

A block would be nice in general, but for this particular issue, it would definitely be best to just start from the source.

[vagrant-poet]

Even if banning is complex with digital content, we know they can suspend posting privileges, and stopping people for posting bigotry is still achieved with that option.

[Yoshua]

No need to stop with public announcements. People would not be informed without them.

Agreed.

If someone is being abusive and baiting to other members of the community on a regular basis then a time out is more than warranted if not more.

[Cori Marie]

Asking for better moderation isn't trolling, and I'm sorry you see it that way Vardoc. Rysky, Kobold Cleaver and many other posters have been the focus of many directly targeted bigoted comments including but not limited to a misgendering in this very thread directed at Rysky. Asking for there to be more ramifications for those actions isn't trolling, it's asking for the moderators to do their jobs to keep this community a place where minorities can actually feel welcome.

[thejeff]

Cori Marie wrote:

Asking for better moderation isn't trolling, and I'm sorry you see it that way Vardoc. Rysky, Kobold Cleaver and many other posters have been the focus of many directly targeted bigoted comments including but not limited to a misgendering in this very thread directed at Rysky. Asking for there to be more ramifications for those actions isn't trolling, it's asking for the moderators to do their jobs to keep this community a place where minorities can actually feel welcome.

Dammit, I glossed right over that too. Flagged.