Hi all,
I am about to start my first Starfinder campaign (as GM), and I’m very excited about it, however I was wondering what people’s experiences have been with tracking ammo, battery charges, etc.? In D&D/PF, I’ve usually operated on the policy that as long as the PCs acquire a week to ten days of rations and a couple quivers of arrow/bolts, we can just forego the hassle of tracking unless I am running an adventure that is specifically about limited resources and survival. However, reading the SF CRB, tracking resources seems like a bigger part of the game. Do you all generally track this stuff or handwave it? Is it important for game balance? Thanks!
My group has never tracked ammo outside of things like special phasing bullets or grenades.
I track magazines and that is it as long as they have a few spares.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Usually no. Except folks overpowering their equipment to burn off abazilllion charges for some extra damage, most charactersbuy 3 backup batteries and swap them out after every combat.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I do in regards to how many shots they have in their clip, after the first couple games where the party looted every battery the enemies had, I am generally good with them having a good number of batteries. Add in our Mechanic can charge 5 batteries a day and the fact our games have down time, its easy to keep them charged
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I use the "three magazine rule" for characters just starting out. Also I of course do monitor special ammo useage like adamantine.
Mainly you need to keep an eye on ammo usage around anyone who use full auto, double-tap feat, or is full-attacking a lot.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Some of the Shadowrun computer games had an interesting compromise position. Ammo was unlimited, but load capacity of weapons wasn't. So after X shots in one gun or Y shots in the other with a bigger capacity, they needed to be reloaded. Of course, if you thought you were about to head into a fight, you'd make sure all your guns were topped up.
I like that because it gets rid of the long-term admin hassle of tracking ammo, but it keeps good ammo usage/capacity as a feature with which some guns can distinguish themselves. And the reload moment before a moment is a nice "are we ready" mental bookmark.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Only if the weapon consumes a lot of ammo and has small capacity, so you could actually run out of juice in a combat.
If it's usage 1, capacity 20, nah, why bother.
I do, but nearly all of my experience with SF has been Society play, where it's expected. Most of my characters' weapons and gear have enough charges/ammo that I've rarely, if ever, had to reload mid-combat, but I have had to do so after fights pretty regularly to make sure I wouldn't have to during the next one (esp. if it's a 9/1 or 20/2 weapon).
Enough of the people I play with have PCs with backup generators that the party can usually assume everything gets recharged during travel time before or after a mission. But PCs using kinetic ammo have to restock periodically, and everyone should have a few spare batteries to last them through the scenario.
(I have a technomancer with the magic hack that allows them to use a battery to power a spell once a day, but that's a case of draining a whole battery rather than tracking charges.)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We also play on a VTT that automatically tracks ammo so for us its pretty trivial. While I've never had PCs run out of ammo, certain players frequently neglect to swap out batteries or consolidate charges between battles. That's proven entertaining several times as the character strides up, makes some dramatic speech, and then levels their weapon to finish off a boss only to have it go *click* instead of fire.
Like clear spindle aeon stones for food/water, there are relatively low-level upgrades like the backup generator and conserving fusion that facilitate handwaving ammo tracking.
I definitely track my ammo and charges, whether or not anyone asks, because I got into the habit early (the first Starfinder character I started playing was a mechanic that took overcharge as their first trick, and I've played a few that used particularly thirsty weapons or batteries with fusions). Doing it with tick marks on scratch paper as I attack and only updating non-automated VTTs when it won't detract from other things makes it a negligible effort.
As a player, I track how many shots rather then charges. Mechanic with prototype weapon, 2 batteries which basically gives me 10 shots Guan Yu (The weapon) is hungry
Thanks for the feedback everyone, much appreciated!
Iunno why there is a reluctance to track it, since it is technically a resource with a price cost attached. While it certainly might show up as loot relatively often, it is also game dependent, and in some situations low usage moderate capacity firearms like small arms can be an expense over time depending on what kinds of ammo you're using.
Some ammo even has significant bulk restrictions like petrol tanks and missiles, so you certainly should be tracking those. And some do fall into extremely low usage counts.
Really, it's a show of good faith to be tallying attacks made and making the adjustment afterwards. In the same way you should be expected to be tracking credits, loot and class feature resources expended.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I mean I basically just tally how many times a person has attacked since they've had the opportunity to chill and reload. If it gets to be around 15-20 then I pipe up with "Have you run out of ammo yet?" and if they can't show their work then click-click-click.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Iunno why there is a reluctance to track it, since it is technically a resource with a price cost attached.
Pointless number tracking mainly.
Most people are playing to roleplay, rather than marking off how many charges batteries or bullets especially when exponential wealth of starfinder means ammo is affectively free.
There is also a big difference between tracking things like limited use class abilities because there is normally a lot less to track. As for XP, I know a lot of groups that don't track it and use milestone advancement instead, which is definitely an option in Starfinder, especially if you play any of the adventure paths since they tell you when people should be what levels.
|
I encourage my players to track their ammunition (and trust them doing it).
Ammunition is a ressource and if you boil it down, Starfinder-Combat is a ressource-assign-game.
Especially if you run multiple fights in a row or one real long fight (e.g. a "hold out until reinforcements arrive" scenario) ammo management will become a crucial part.
Even the "one-day gang encounter" can lead to a 20 rounds shot-out. And if a player only brought his 10 shot revolver to the fight and no backup ammo, it will force him to leave his cover and go into melee or think of other creative ways to "defeat" the enemy.
Which then can lead to insteresting situations and even some combat-roleplay (think of all the "I have only one bullet left, how many do you have?" scenes in action movies).
So I would NEVER remove the ammo/charge tracking from the game (simply because it's a such crucial part which can create interessting situations). Removing it would also make some equipment, abilities and spells worthless.
Additional Tips on how to make tracking ammo simple:
- use colored dices/pearl (or even smarties^^) to track your ammo
- use a laminated card with boxes you simply cross out
- of the players have the chance to rest in a place with infrastructure (e.g. their starship, a station etc.) let them refresh their ammo for the normal cost without any checks, rp or whatever.
- count "shots" instead of "charges" for energy weapons, especially for weapons which need multiple charges per shot
- item cards (laminated) with all stats and ammo/charge counter on it.
When I want the theme of survival on an adventure, I tell my players, "this dungeon is resource poor, we will be tracking ammo and encumbrance". Otherwise I dont track ammo unless the players enjoy it.
I've also utilized usage dice before. at the end of combat i have them roll a D4 for low capacity batteries or a D6+ for higher capacity ammos. if they role a 1 or 2, the ammo is expended. This can also be invoked any time there is a natural 1 to simulate the shooter wildly loosing their cool and shooting off rounds.
I don't track ammo, because I don't find the party's STR based character toting around dozens of spare batteries on top of the other's half a dozen or so just so the players can... Not track ammo after all to be interesting in any way.
I track magazines and reloads of course, but the rarity of encounters against enemies without batteries and ammo of their own, means I just don't bother.
Now, if I was doing a survival encounter vs say the swarm that would last a few levels? I might consider it.
As a GM I ask all my players to track their ammo, trusting they do so and after a couple reminders. NOT after every shot but after its been a while blazing away and have not heard them changing out clips, batteries or the I'm running dry have to head back and resupply then I dig into it a bit more.
I'm on Roll20 and there was a way to auto count ammo script but it always breaks after a couple sessions so now I do without sadly.
But most of my groups are fine the way I do it with friendly reminders from time to time :)
Tom
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you don't track ammunition at all, then I might suggest invoking the crit-fail rule from Genesys/Star Wars FFG.
If you roll a 1 on the die, you're out of ammunition and have to reload.
|
|
Just out of curiosity? Why do people don't track ammunition? Is is just because they feel tracking it is to tedious? Do you feel limited resources didn't bring anything to the game?
And if you don't track ammunition do you track spell slots? abilities with limited uses? equipment with limited uses? And if so, where is the difference for you?
Just out of curiosity? Why do people don't track ammunition? Is is just because they feel tracking it is to tedious? Do you feel limited resources didn't bring anything to the game?
And if you don't track ammunition do you track spell slots? abilities with limited uses? equipment with limited uses? And if so, where is the difference for you?
I find that ammo only looks like a limited resource on paper. In practice the characters I've GM'd for never run out of basic ammo (batteries, and small/longarm rounds). I'm talking through multiple level ups worth of combats.
The same is not true for spells, abilities, or other types of consumables.
And sure, there are a couple character builds that can chew through ammo fast enough for it to be a problem (overcharge, automatic, etc.) But I haven't GM'd for those types of characters yet. If I did, I imagine I'd have them track their ammo use in case they ran out mid encounter area.
|
Just out of curiosity? Why do people don't track ammunition? Is is just because they feel tracking it is to tedious? Do you feel limited resources didn't bring anything to the game?
And if you don't track ammunition do you track spell slots? abilities with limited uses? equipment with limited uses? And if so, where is the difference for you?I find that ammo only looks like a limited resource on paper. In practice the characters I've GM'd for never run out of basic ammo (batteries, and small/longarm rounds). I'm talking through multiple level ups worth of combats.
The same is not true for spells, abilities, or other types of consumables.
And sure, there are a couple character builds that can chew through ammo fast enough for it to be a problem (overcharge, automatic, etc.) But I haven't GM'd for those types of characters yet. If I did, I imagine I'd have them track their ammo use in case they ran out mid encounter area.
Also, I don't think we have seen an AP yet where you are just abandoned on a planet without the ability to get new ammo, whether or not it is created or purchased. So it has just not been an issue where you couldn't just get more ammo.
Dead Suns AP 1 (on the Acreon/Drift Rock), Signal of Screams 1, Attack of the Swarm 1, Threefold Conspiracy 1 & 2, and Dawn of Flame 3-4 come to mind. Probably more.
Dead Suns AP 1 (on the Acreon/Drift Rock), Signal of Screams 1, Attack of the Swarm 1, Threefold Conspiracy 1 & 2, and Dawn of Flame 3-4 come to mind. Probably more.
And yet, if you don't mind taking up 0.9 bulk in spare ammo (if using projectile weapons, 0 bulk if less than ultra-battery) you should be able to carry enough ammo to get you through those encounters if you aren't an ammo hungry character build. I'd be surprised if you go through more than a magazine a fight on average, and then there's looted ammo to consider.
The low level adventures are admittedly trickier, after all ammo hasn't become cheap enough to buy it with spare change in the couch cushions. You need to actually purchase 4-9 spare clips, and that's not chump change at that level.
Just out of curiosity? Why do people don't track ammunition? Is is just because they feel tracking it is to tedious? Do you feel limited resources didn't bring anything to the game?
And if you don't track ammunition do you track spell slots? abilities with limited uses? equipment with limited uses? And if so, where is the difference for you?
When it is tracked, I've never seen it become limited resources. Since the game is designed for them to effectively not be limited resources.
|
|
Just for my understanding: If you are talking about "not tacking ammo" do you mean over the time of an adventure or during one encounter/dungeon?
From my experience (DMing AotS & several years of Shadowrun) ammo capacity came into play quite often. Especially when players use things like Full-Attacks or special attacks and you don't run the standard "one encounter day" or "3 rounds burn fight".
E.g. During our AotS Campaign our Soldier managed to run out of power for her Red Star Plasma Cannon (Cap 40, usage 5 => 8 shots) quite often, which leads to some interesting situations.
@Milo v3: Have to disagree with you on the "the game is designed for them to effectively not be limited resources". If this would be the case there wouldn't be spells, abilities or gear which allows you to recharge your weapons, spent more charges etc.
Also if it wouldn't be around this, why is there a detailled system (charges & usage) instead of a simple "unlimited use" ;)
Over the course of an adventure, primarily because of the dirt cheap cost and low-zero bulk requirements.
I still track when characters need to reload of course, and double check that they have four or more spare mags/batteries on character creation, but after that I just don't worry about it.
I always track ammo and battery charges, and build characters with that in mind. Things like backup generator armor upgrade, a mechanics portable charging station, or create ammunition spell are my favorite things to pick up. Self sustaining characters, ones that need as little support from civilization, are always what I go for. That being said, I never bug my other players about it, it's more of a personal thing I like my characters to be able to do.
Just for my understanding: If you are talking about "not tacking ammo" do you mean over the time of an adventure or during one encounter/dungeon?
From my experience (DMing AotS & several years of Shadowrun) ammo capacity came into play quite often. Especially when players use things like Full-Attacks or special attacks and you don't run the standard "one encounter day" or "3 rounds burn fight".
E.g. During our AotS Campaign our Soldier managed to run out of power for her Red Star Plasma Cannon (Cap 40, usage 5 => 8 shots) quite often, which leads to some interesting situations.
@Milo v3: Have to disagree with you on the "the game is designed for them to effectively not be limited resources". If this would be the case there wouldn't be spells, abilities or gear which allows you to recharge your weapons, spent more charges etc.
Also if it wouldn't be around this, why is there a detailled system (charges & usage) instead of a simple "unlimited use" ;)
I personally mean tracking beyond magazine/capacity size. It should be taken into account for things like reloading. Those are important and can lead to dynamics in the middle of a fight or a choice of using one weapon over another. But don't see a benefit to tracking it in the middle of an adventure outside of combat.
There are certainly many tools to interact with ammo, they're just normally pointless because of how exponential wealth works combined with the ease by which characters can carry many light objects.
Only time I'd see such things as having any purpose is in niche stories that change the standard dynamics of the game that cut you off from both crafting , civilization, and enemies with weapons for very long periods of time.
|
|
Now I understand. :)
I'm handling it myself a similar way, if player have access/time to shops/crafting they can simply refill their ammo during downtime (and don't have to mention it or pay for it (except for expensive/special ammo like grenades). I also allow players to use their own spaceship for this (even without special equipment like a workshop).
During AotS there are times when they don't have access/time(e.g. right at the beginning and at the end). For this the characters were told what will happen and they have the time to prep their equipment accordingly. If they don't do it, not my problem. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Do melee weapons use up a charge each time you hit something? If so, I would houserule that they don't use charges and just have a battery that lasts a certain amount of time (say, 12 hours), as chainsaws in real life can run for up to 2000 hours before running out of gas, and don't just automatically run out after you cut down 10 trees or whatever, so it's hard to believe an advanced, futuristic melee weapon would run out faster.
I don't think I've seen a saw be in reasonably continuous use for more than 2 hours without needing a refill.
Its x charge per minute of use. So about 1 or 2 per combat multiplied by the powered rating. CRB Page 181/182
My rules is that if you have a spare battery of the right size or a reasonable stock of bullets, and you're not using low capacity or high-throughput weapons, you can feel free to not track ammo. Basically when running out of ammo doesn't appear to be a balancing factor for the weapon.