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Someone on reddit shared that the slide pistol is:
d6, fatal d10. Capacity 5. 1 handed. concussive(the damage type thing).
Not sure of it's cost or range, and I'd guess it's martial.
It's probably the best for dual-wield gunslingers.
That sounds very mean, love it
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It's an interact action to change barrels that does not requires a free hand. You can reload normally a barrel but that one requires a free hand.Oh. I thought capacity just meant that reloading the gun didn't require a free hand, for x numbers of shots. Like capacity 5 means you don't need a free hand to reload the slide pistol means you reload between shots, but each time it doesn't require any hands that aren't holding the pistol, until you have shot 5 times.
How does it work exactly? If it's incompatible with any other type of reload, then capacity seems uninspiring combined with the gunslinger.
It seems really niche that you would ever want to do that? Seems baffling to me that it's not a "RELOAD" type action, because I just can't see who would use it? A character who is not a gunslinger who is dual-wielding?
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One barrel.Reload a barrel or reload all barrels? Because if it's a barrel it will be quite hard to use...It's an interact action to change barrels that does not requires a free hand. You can reload normally a barrel but that one requires a free hand.Oh. I thought capacity just meant that reloading the gun didn't require a free hand, for x numbers of shots. Like capacity 5 means you don't need a free hand to reload the slide pistol means you reload between shots, but each time it doesn't require any hands that aren't holding the pistol, until you have shot 5 times.
How does it work exactly? If it's incompatible with any other type of reload, then capacity seems uninspiring combined with the gunslinger.
Wow... That sounds harsh, I mean I heard slide pistol are capacity 5, after you shoot 5 times what can be done in 2-3 turns you will need to stow what you have in your other hand reload and shoot as normal. It's not that bad thank God the new class has a feature to switch your implement so it can have a free hand often enough :D
Any of the weapons that are combination have the capacity trait or repeating?
Yes, a mace gun basically. Capacity 3.
Just how many different kinds of guns are there? It's starting to sound like they might rival traditional weapons in terms if quantity.
Have a decent amount, I guess around 30 counting the combination weapons. The rest is mostly unique weapons like beast guns or specific magic guns that use the other weapons as base.
What is a slide pistol though? Is it a semi automatic gun loke say a mauser HSc?
Capacity is not a reload so it does not work with the reload abilities of gunslinger, so having a free hand or using 2 handed guns works best for it.
Well, if that is the end of things, then that is really disappointing. Sure Paired Shots is still a thing - and apparently level 4 now? - and there seem to be a couple more interesting dual-wield feats as well. But if I have to sit through the good ol' cycle of "two action feat+reload/reload+two action feat/do nothing this round" (the 3-round cycle you got if you ignored the requirement for a free hand or had dual-weapon reload) again, just worse, since it doesn't even have the reload interaction anymore.... no thank you.
It might be somewhat effective, but somehow even more mind-numbingly boring than a ranger just shooting three times a round.
Damn, sorry people. I'm trying really hard to reserve judgement here until I have read the rules personally. Its just really hard :/
How does the kickback trait functions exactly? Do different weapons have different STR requirements? Is it 1 damage per weapon damage die or does it scale like Backstabber?
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What is a slide pistol though? Is it a semi automatic gun loke say a mauser HSc?
It's a gun with 5 barrels, and then you slide the gun to another barrel to shoot.
How does the kickback trait functions exactly? Do different weapons have different STR requirements? Is it 1 damage per weapon damage die or does it scale like Backstabber?
Basically propulsive, gives you +1 damage but you need 14STR to not take the -2 penalty to your attack roll, have a modification that increases it to +2 but requires 18 STR to not take penalty.
Seems like guns still suck then? Seems like in almost every way a bow fighter is going to be superior. They're out damaging them at a higher range, with better defenses, and bow Fighters are one of the lowest dps Fighters you can have. I guess there might be some decent utility feats that make them a support martial? But they were really lacking in the playtest and it doesn't seem like there have been many changes...
I guess I'll have to wait and see until I can look it over in detail, but I really expected them to fix the whole "dps is equivalent to bows but also has to reload" problem. They also made them even worse than Fighters by making them not able to archetype into Legendary proficiency scaling in another weapon? Why? Should we expect Fighters to get this change as well?
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Basically propulsive, gives you +1 damage but you need 14STR to not take the -2 penalty to your attack roll, have a modification that increases it to +2 but requires 18 STR to not take penalty.
That's way better than I thought it would be, honestly.
Are most modifications like that, upgrades/sidegrades to different traits?
Instead of sucking, I think they will be just confined to the Gunslinger class more than anything, at least the simple and martial ones (judging by what we have been spoonfed since yesterday).
Seems like guns still suck then? Seems like in almost every way a bow fighter is going to be superior. They're out damaging them at a higher range, with better defenses, and bow Fighters are one of the lowest dps Fighters you can have. I guess there might be some decent utility feats that make them a support martial? But they were really lacking in the playtest and it doesn't seem like there have been many changes...
We have rather little information yet, so it's too early to tell. I mean we don't even know the full feat support, how the normal single-shot guns are or how all of this interacts with the new modifications. For all I know, the slide pistol isn't even intended to be used by a dual-wield gunslinger for example.
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Someone on reddit shared that the slide pistol is:
d6, fatal d10. Capacity 5. 1 handed. concussive(the damage type thing).
Not sure of it's cost or range, and I'd guess it's martial.
It's probably the best for dual-wield gunslingers.
I liked it!
It's appear to be a good solution to have a one handed long range weapon for those don't have a free hand for some reason (like the currently thaumaturge playtest class) and don't want to use a returning rune in a thrown weapon.
For reload the player can instead draw other pistol instead of reload each barrel.
This put these firearms in a position that others longe range weapons don't have, a single handed weapon that can have 1-action shot but a limited capacity.
Seems like guns still suck then? Seems like in almost every way a bow fighter is going to be superior. They're out damaging them at a higher range, with better defenses, and bow Fighters are one of the lowest dps Fighters you can have. I guess there might be some decent utility feats that make them a support martial? But they were really lacking in the playtest and it doesn't seem like there have been many changes...
I guess I'll have to wait and see until I can look it over in detail, but I really expected them to fix the whole "dps is equivalent to bows but also has to reload" problem. They also made them even worse than Fighters by making them not able to archetype into Legendary proficiency scaling in another weapon? Why? Should we expect Fighters to get this change as well?
You forget that bows need 2 hands to shoot.
Basically propulsive, gives you +1 damage but you need 14STR to not take the -2 penalty to your attack roll, have a modification that increases it to +2 but requires 18 STR to not take penalty.That's way better than I thought it would be, honestly.
Are most modifications like that, upgrades/sidegrades to different traits?
Have some variation, like tripod that are automatically deployed when you drawn the weapon, scopes that increase the scatter radius or range increment using an action to see throught it.
Also have some fun talismans in the book, like one that if you miss the shot the bullet goes back to the weapon so you don't need to reload it.
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I guess I'll have to wait to see how it all works together.
Guns were a little underpowered in the playtest, and pretty clunky.
I'm surprised with some of the stuff that's being spoiled in fragments, because it seems even weaker numerically, and also still very clunky.
That suggests to me that I just am not seeing the full picture.
I guess I'll have to wait to see how it all works together.
Guns were a little underpowered in the playtest, and pretty clunky.
I'm surprised with some of the stuff that's being spoiled in fragments, because it seems even weaker numerically, and also still very clunky.
That suggests to me that I just am not seeing the full picture.
Exactly what I'm thinking, though the only clunky thing I've seen is the dual-wielding interaction. The rest seems like a serious improvement.
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The way capacity works, and how it interacts not at all with reloads is just... giving me the clunk.
A gun that doesn't interact well with the any of the guns features that are about reloads, which is lots of them. ???
I hope I'm just not getting the full story.
Also have some fun talismans in the book, like one that if you miss the shot the bullet goes back to the weapon so you don't need to reload it.
Woa! That's fun!
There's a version of this as spellheart? :P
I just found that the Blazons of Shared Power are a thing, how do they work?
Seems like both classes are just bad.
Inventor still has int as the KAS so it has a lower hit rate, you can crit fail your skill-based damage amp and damage yourself, you have 8hp and your mechanical companion is still worse than a dex animal companion.
Gunslinger is better off as a crossbow slinger. In fact, just never ever use guns. You've either got d4 damage dice or screwed with reload. Drifter gets to not provoke an AoO with a ranged attack but still provokes on reload so that's a joke. The "brace of pistols" item doesn't work with quick draw so it's just reload with extra steps. At least early theory says you can get a half-decent gunslinger going by level 6-7 with juggler dedication, focused juggler and paired shots with repeating hand crossbows. Even with reload 0 you still need a free hand to reload so it's a trap feat for anyone not juggling.
Revolvers: yes and no. There is a specific section about revolvers that says that extremely rare cases exist because they were brought to Golarion from other realms (such as WW1 erra earth), but because it is beyond the technology level of the world they are not statted out. However it does give guidelines to create them for your world if you want.However I did see a "Long Aire Repeater" that has 8 pellet magazines.
What kind of guidelines, exactly? I'm not asking for paragraphs copy and pasted, but maybe a brief example or just a gist of it.
Can't help but ask, because I find the exclusion of such weapons to be rather odd. It even mentions them in the GMG for steam settings.
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Seems like both classes are just bad.
Inventor still has int as the KAS so it has a lower hit rate, you can crit fail your skill-based damage amp and damage yourself, you have 8hp and your mechanical companion is still worse than a dex animal companion.
Gunslinger is better off as a crossbow slinger. In fact, just never ever use guns. You've either got d4 damage dice or screwed with reload. Drifter gets to not provoke an AoO with a ranged attack but still provokes on reload so that's a joke. The "brace of pistols" item doesn't work with quick draw so it's just reload with extra steps. At least early theory says you can get a half-decent gunslinger going by level 6-7 with juggler dedication, focused juggler and paired shots with repeating hand crossbows. Even with reload 0 you still need a free hand to reload so it's a trap feat for anyone not juggling.
Even the subscribers probably haven't fully analysed the rules yet, so making absolute judgements like that based on information that can barely be called fragmented isn't very useful.
I just found that the Blazons of Shared Power are a thing, how do they work?
Same as doubling rings basically but affects one handed ranged weapons as well.
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Even the subscribers probably haven't fully analysed the rules yet, so making absolute judgements like that based information that can barely be called fragmented isn't very useful.Seems like both classes are just bad.
Inventor still has int as the KAS so it has a lower hit rate, you can crit fail your skill-based damage amp and damage yourself, you have 8hp and your mechanical companion is still worse than a dex animal companion.
Gunslinger is better off as a crossbow slinger. In fact, just never ever use guns. You've either got d4 damage dice or screwed with reload. Drifter gets to not provoke an AoO with a ranged attack but still provokes on reload so that's a joke. The "brace of pistols" item doesn't work with quick draw so it's just reload with extra steps. At least early theory says you can get a half-decent gunslinger going by level 6-7 with juggler dedication, focused juggler and paired shots with repeating hand crossbows. Even with reload 0 you still need a free hand to reload so it's a trap feat for anyone not juggling.
I don't think the world has enough fingers to count how many times hasty non-playtested judgements have been made and found to be wrong after a year of playing data.
Can anyone tell me when GnG stuff is likely to hit archives of nethys?
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Can anyone tell me when GnG stuff is likely to hit archives of nethys?
At release day (13th of October) or the next day most likely.
Are there any guns that are simple weapons? Any non-fatal/deadly guns that are consistently okay? Any new alchemical items like bombs/poisons/mutagens?
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Revolvers: yes and no. There is a specific section about revolvers that says that extremely rare cases exist because they were brought to Golarion from other realms (such as WW1 erra earth), but because it is beyond the technology level of the world they are not statted out. However it does give guidelines to create them for your world if you want.However I did see a "Long Aire Repeater" that has 8 pellet magazines.
What kind of guidelines, exactly? I'm not asking for paragraphs copy and pasted, but maybe a brief example or just a gist of it.
Can't help but ask, because I find the exclusion of such weapons to be rather odd. It even mentions them in the GMG for steam settings.
In doing a ctrl-f search of the PDF the word "revolver" is mentioned exactly 4 times. Each of those times is in the same section that takes up roughly a page of content titled "Revolvers and World War I-Era Weapons" The gist of that section is what I mentioned before. One small excerpt from this section states "For a GM looking to create a revolver, a similar mechanical expression might result from adding the repeating trait to the dueling pistol, but again, this would make it more powerful than an advanced firearm, so it isn’t recommended."
However, if you are thinking of "revolver" as simply a weapon that can fire multiple shots without needing to reload, there are a few options for this such as the one I mentioned before.
Since it has it's own section with general guidelines that takes up almost a page of the book, seems reasonable it can be listed as part of the book. May not be what people were expecting though. In any case, hope this helps.
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Are there any guns that are simple weapons? Any non-fatal/deadly guns that are consistently okay? Any new alchemical items like bombs/poisons/mutagens?
Yes, have a few simple guns like air repeaters and flintlock pistols and muskets.
Have an harmona gun that is d10 with kickback and 150ft range.
Have a few alchemical bullets (gunslinger have a few feats to make some bombs and bullets with delayed progression) and black powder.
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Are there any guns that are simple weapons? Any non-fatal/deadly guns that are consistently okay? Any new alchemical items like bombs/poisons/mutagens?
Yes looks like ~7
Yes/Maybe - there are guns without the fatal trait (Blunderbuss & Harmona Gun for example). Most still have fatal though. As to their being "consistently okay" I don't think I'm the best person to answer that. However some look ok to me.
None that I've seen outside of alchemical ammunition. There are a number of items that help with alchemical items though. For example, there is a bomb launcher that can throw a loaded bomb 60 feet for it's first increment.
What are the guns with scatter, and what are their traits/ranges/reloads like? Does scatter still work like the playtest?
What are the guns with scatter, and what are their traits/ranges/reloads like? Does scatter still work like the playtest?
Changed from Cone to burst around your target. Damage is still 1 per weapon dice.
Have Blunderbluss that is d8 scatter 10 and 2 hands. 40ft range.
Dargon Mouth Pistol that 1d6 1 hand scatter 5, 20ft range.
And two advanced ones for dwarf (have kickback) and goblin (fatal and backstabber on it).
Is the sliding pistol a martial weapon? Because it sounds very good compared to the dueling pistol, what is the tradeoff?
Is the sliding pistol a martial weapon? Because it sounds very good compared to the dueling pistol, what is the tradeoff?
Half the range. And yes its a martial weapon.
Are there one-handed beast guns?
And are there rules/guidelines to create your own?
Is there bullet types that changes some traits, distance or even damage?
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I can't express how annoying it is that classes like inventor that depend on a specific item have no rules for replacing it if it gets lost or stolen. It's honestly enough for me to want to go back to playing starfinder with my group, at least their classes that depend on an item like mechanic explicitly state that their drone/experimental weapon can be replaced if destroyed or lost, instead of just destroyed.
I know I'm in the minority and that if your innovation gets stolen you have a bad gm, and that pf2 is more of a game than a simulation. But it's only a couple words (or lost, literally those two words would be enough) to patch up something that in real life would happen all the time (getting weapons confiscated, stolen, going into a crowded public place, whatever).
Are there one-handed beast guns?
And are there rules/guidelines to create your own?
Yes
No, they are specific magic weapons.
Is there bullet types that changes some traits, distance or even damage?
No, but have one that gives persistent acid damage when you hit.
Has anyone seen any Star guns other than Rowan Rifle? Not using ammunition might mean no need to reload. Also I feel like if an Automaton is going to merge with a gun they shouldn't need to load ammo.
Last question from me. Are there options for mounting weapons on vehicles, say like an airship? I know it basically says in the GMG that you can stick weapons on them, such as a crossbow. It seemed less than bare bones, though, which is why I'm asking this.
What are the Martial Crossbows?
Would you give us a rough picture of one or two?
Three new crossbows: repeating versions of the existing hand/normal/heavy crossbow.
They're mostly identical to their simple versions but have 1 less reload (reload 0 for the hand/normal crossbow and 1 for the heavy) and the repeating trait, which requires you to spend 3 actions to reload the magazine after 5 shots.
The hand/normal crossbow are advanced weapons and the heavy crossbow is martial.
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Three new crossbows: repeating versions of the existing hand/normal/heavy crossbow.
They're mostly identical to their simple versions but have 1 less reload (reload 0 for the hand/normal crossbow and 1 for the heavy) and the repeating trait, which requires you to spend 3 actions to reload the magazine after 5 shots.
The hand/normal crossbow are advanced weapons and the heavy crossbow is martial.
Lol diablo 3 demon hunter on the way!
Three new crossbows: repeating versions of the existing hand/normal/heavy crossbow.
They're mostly identical to their simple versions but have 1 less reload (reload 0 for the hand/normal crossbow and 1 for the heavy) and the repeating trait, which requires you to spend 3 actions to reload the magazine after 5 shots.
The hand/normal crossbow are advanced weapons and the heavy crossbow is martial.
The repeating hand crossbow is technically not even new, too bad I hoped for more
What about the backpack ballista? how does that work?
It sits in your backpack and you can Interact to deploy it
While out it's a 1+ hand 1d12 martial weapon with a 180 foot range increment.
Takes 10 rounds to reload though and you can't reload it while wearing the backpack so it's just a one-shot weapon.
ouch, I really imagined that to look different
does the artillerist archetype help with that?
Artillerist is entirely focused around siege weapons, so no.
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Did anyone say anything about Monk with Guns? Have an archetype called Bullet Dancer that is a general one, but is basically hand made for monk (only class that can pick it at lvl 2 as requires expert unarmored), and even let you flurry of blows with simple guns, bayonets and reinforced stocks.
Is there a "longsword" of guns?
A martial gun with fatal, and concussive, no extra traits and decent damage?
What's the highest damage one handed gun?