Thaumaturge's Demesne is pointless.


Thaumaturge Class


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First and most obvious: it's a 200-square-foot building or property... so, it's a shed. I mean that literally: 10 ft by 20 ft is one of the standard sizes for a backyard shed. Put a couch, a table, and a cot in there and you've already filled the place up; you might need to rearrange the furniture if you want to give your party enough places to actually sit.

Second, it's statically placed. Great, cool—so that makes it basically useless in the vast majority of campaigns. What's the value of spending a class feat on a cool hangout that's the size of a shed and that can be mostly replicated through rituals? By the time you can spend a second class feat on it at level 20 (out of eleven total, just to make this one shed do something useful), the wizard in the party has been casting magnificent mansion since level 13, and the only downside in the comparison is that when you stay in the mansion you have to take some time to dump all your stuff back into bags of holding when you leave.


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I agree w/ the size complaint.

Rather than making it movable (besides the 20 feat), I'd prefer a way to make portals or teleport to/from it.


Make it a symbol that shifts it to a location until you walk out the door again.
Kinda like cozy cabin


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I think the issue is it just needed a bit more description. It seems like a bit more limited version of resplendant mansion. Its foot print is 300 feet on a side but can be multiple stories tall. Given the description of the thaumaturge version part of what they can claim is a 200 square foot piece of property. So we know the foot print of this is 200 square feet but that does not indicate that the interior volume is limited to that. It could like the resplendent mansion be multiple stories tall.

I think for the full release this does need some work like some portal that you can use to get back to it or it needs to be movable earlier. Possibly add another tier first tier like level 4 or 6 gives you a cabin basically level 12 it upgrades to a tower and 20 it upgrades to a full on mansion.

Or keep it small but have it larger on the interior than its exterior size would indicate. A 200 foot cabin is not a demense.


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Interestingly enough I took a look at the spell magnificent mansion and it sort of lines up with the demesne as it describes an opulent mansion with many rooms that somehow fits in a 40x40x30 area.

It also describes being able to host events for up to 150 people in this 40x40 maybe three story building. It makes me kinda suspect the size they imagine this spell to cover and the numbers they are using don't exactly line up. So it kinda makes sense if they are using that spell as the guideline the square foot listing is a bit wonky.


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Ok, but put it in Brooklyn and you can charge $3k a month


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kaid wrote:

I think the issue is it just needed a bit more description. It seems like a bit more limited version of resplendant mansion. Its foot print is 300 feet on a side but can be multiple stories tall. Given the description of the thaumaturge version part of what they can claim is a 200 square foot piece of property. So we know the foot print of this is 200 square feet but that does not indicate that the interior volume is limited to that. It could like the resplendent mansion be multiple stories tall.

I think for the full release this does need some work like some portal that you can use to get back to it or it needs to be movable earlier. Possibly add another tier first tier like level 4 or 6 gives you a cabin basically level 12 it upgrades to a tower and 20 it upgrades to a full on mansion.

Or keep it small but have it larger on the interior than its exterior size would indicate. A 200 foot cabin is not a demense.

"200 square feet" is not the same thing as "200 feet on a side". A resplendent mansion, at 300 feet on a side, is 90,000 square feet per floor.

Xenocrat wrote:
Ok, but put it in Brooklyn and you can charge $3k a month

You'll have to train up Landlord Lore to Earn Income from it, though.


Roadie wrote:
kaid wrote:

I think the issue is it just needed a bit more description. It seems like a bit more limited version of resplendant mansion. Its foot print is 300 feet on a side but can be multiple stories tall. Given the description of the thaumaturge version part of what they can claim is a 200 square foot piece of property. So we know the foot print of this is 200 square feet but that does not indicate that the interior volume is limited to that. It could like the resplendent mansion be multiple stories tall.

I think for the full release this does need some work like some portal that you can use to get back to it or it needs to be movable earlier. Possibly add another tier first tier like level 4 or 6 gives you a cabin basically level 12 it upgrades to a tower and 20 it upgrades to a full on mansion.

Or keep it small but have it larger on the interior than its exterior size would indicate. A 200 foot cabin is not a demense.

"200 square feet" is not the same thing as "200 feet on a side". A resplendent mansion, at 300 feet on a side, is 90,000 square feet per floor.

Xenocrat wrote:
Ok, but put it in Brooklyn and you can charge $3k a month
You'll have to train up Landlord Lore to Earn Income from it, though.

Yes but it also talks about an unbuilt section of land and buildings as being equivalent which makes me wonder if the 200 sq foot is for the entire thing or just the foot print of the lot it has to be on. If you look at the dimensions of the magnificant mansion which is 40x40x30 but talk about it fitting 150 people. I think they glanced at the size of the mansion lower level mansion spell and the numbers wind up just being a bit weird without more information.


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Actually, what if they just allowed it to be bigger on the inside, very much like Magnificent Mansion (and maybe added the door part, too). I like the flavor of that better than having a huge area, especially if it increases w/ time or levels.


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Yeah. I'm a huge fan of cool hideout stuff, but two feats (including a capstone!) is a lot for such a downgrade to the spell version… especially when you could scroll-cast or miracle the spell when you need it, and get a lot more out of your feats besides. This should be offering more than the spell in some way.


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TBH, this mostly reminds me of the Vigilante Safehouse feat. I'm surprised the size of the safehouse doesn't just scale with the thaumaturgist's highest proficiency knowledge skill, like the Vigilante's does.

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