This also helps with the issue of not doing anything if you're already hitting the weakness.
That said, I'd be concerned about it stepping on the toes of debuff casters than Rogue, TBH, Rogue has more options. I.e. applying a constant Sickened (which was suggested elsewhere) then makes ALL debuff spells that don't do more than 1 magnitude useless on that enemy. And making it a non-Status penalty would probably be too strong. I do like the idea though, just not sure how to balance it.
Something to aid in casting scrolls would be nice, either a scroll case or something like the scepter that allows casting scrolls you have on you without drawing them.
Concept Pitch: Is bad
Some nice ideas in here too.
Seconding this. I think it would be cool if it was tied to an implement, maybe a scroll case implement that lets you cast any scrolls in it, or have Wand let you cast any scrolls you are carrying (although that seems a bit OP with what wand has now).
This is the best "wrap up" post of the issues mentioned elsewhere I've seen.
I think 4 is fine as long as it's accounted for (i.e. Rule of 3 and extra damage).
I also think 5 could be fine. Keep in mind you get 3 implements, and some may be more suited for support. Lantern is a decent 2nd or 3rd choice, and Wand is basically a free cantrip w/ upgrades for a marital. Both could be buffed a bit but they aren't terrible.
Yeah, especially since it's competing with 3 focus regen and double Phyche (assuming it is indeed 18).
For comparison, CHA based:
The Int penalties seem both harsher and more common. Cha usually just loses damage, and only on cantrips, while Int can easily lead to you wasting a spell slot (and I would think it would be more common, although you should be at range).
Dubious Scholar wrote:
The devs have already said they're adding melee abilities for ranged weapons via bayonets or similar (I don't remember the details), I don't see why it would need to be Inventor only. Something to allow melee innovations for those types of attachments would be good though, if it doesn't work by default.
Maybe limited to Construct Innovation. So the default construct is roughly in line with an animal companion, but with Construct Innovation it's closer to the Eidolon.
Simple request: Unsteady weapons should be 1+ hands when mounted, and you should be able to mount 2 hand non-unsteady ranged weapons and have them be 1+.
This helps for things like throwing bombs and casting spells while having a mounted weapon, or even pulling out a pistol when someone gets too close to your sniper nest. Plus, it makes more sense: you don't need two hands to hold up a gun on a tripod.
I'd like to see more utility (esp. speed) and damage (integrated weapons and unarmed) modifications as part of the default modification lists, instead of just feats. Feats certainly have a place, but it seems like only Armor have some of the basic modifications (mobility) as feats instead of defaults. Weapon and Construct both have multiple "paths", armor just has which type of DR you want.
A "Dual-Form Armor" feat would also be very cool with more options, so you could say switch from your damaging armor to a full defense armor.
A speed boost modification for Armor would also be very nice, and a size modification as was mentioned elsewhere. I'd prefer to see some of the more interesting (i.e. non-DR) modifications moved to the modification list instead of feats, too, so you could build a tank armor innovation, or a utility/movement one, or a unarmed damage one. If that happens, a "Dual-Form Armor" feat would work very well with it.
I really like the flavor of multiple near-single shot pistols. There's lots of design space there, I'd almost advocate for a separate Way focused around preparing multiple pistols (say w/ alchemy) with different effects and choosing which one to use. It also incentivizes keeping a crossbow around as a backup, which I think is neat.
I like this, although I'd worry a little about feat overload.
An possible way to handle that and the action tax is to have magus select their "Main Synthesis" at level 1 as a class feature (from a list of "basic" syntheses that would be level 1 feats) and have entering it (and only it) be a free action.
I've actually been kicking around an idea somewhat like this. To me, the biggest use/thematic importance of magic to the Magus isn't damaging spells, but things like Animate Rope, Message Rune, Wall of Force, Darkvision, Invisibility, Illusionary Object, etc. Combat (and non combat, but mostly combat) utility spells that, you know, feel magical (especially in an Arcane sense), plus the sheer versatility that comes with spellcasting. If I'm just doing damage, I don't care if its from spells slots or focus spells (I'd probably prefer focus spells actually), but losing access to those utility type spells hurts my fantasy of the "Magus" a lot. It feels a bit like the difference between playing say a primal and an arcane caster. Magus is arcane, in mechanics and flavor, but a focus magus like this feels (imo) like something that would fit better with a primal magus flavor wise.
The idea I was playing with is a potential compromise between the arcane caster flavor and these focus spell focused ideas. Something like "Spend a focus point to cast a level <= ceil(your level / 4) spell". I think there would have to be some limits or more costs to it, but adding something along the lines of using focus points to cast low(ish) level spells would (for me) go a long way towards mitigating the flavor costs of a focus magus.
If Magus gets something like Scroll Savant it would be a lot better. It wouldn't surprise me if they do get this or a version of it (hopefully not at level 10 though) and it just didn't make it into the playtest.
Maybe even transferring the spell to someone else for a spellstrike?
Now that sounds interesting... I'd be wary of getting into a situation where you're better off transferring the spell to the Fighter than using it yourself, but having the ability to give their weapons spells before combat starts? Sounds fun, and flavorful. Although it kind of needs more spell slots.
I wrote this out earlier somewhere, but ignoring crits (which will help them a little), cantrips heightened to spell level 10 do less than Sudden Bolt at spell level 2/3 or Shocking Grasp at spell level 3/4 (depending on whether you are using Telekinetic Projectile or not). And that's just damage, most cantrips are attack spells which will do even worse than save spells like Sudden Bolt (of course Electric Arc is the big standout here). You're almost always better off using a spell slot, assuming full casting, except for your bottom 2 or 3 levels.
I like this kind of setup, although I'd prefer giving more bonuses while you have a spell stored instead of shortening the casting time.
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I'd even be ok with a setup where it's very hard to hit with spells or weapons or both (think Expert proficiency) without using spellstrike, but you get boosts to counter this when a spell is stored in your weapon.
Its a bit extreme, but if it's required to free up enough of the power budget to do something like this, or even better frees up enough for more (damaging, hopefully!) focus spells or spell slots imo its worth it.
Uh, no? Save spells work like this, attack spells (i.e. Shocking Grasp, Polar Ray, almost all cantrips) don't. The difference between save and attack spells does need to be considered here, but its not that great even with save spells currently (someone's ran the numbers, I don't have them handy).
Depends on how often you're critting. You'd have to be critting 14% of the time to make up the difference at level 20, assuming 3 rounds of persistent damage.
What I meant with Telekinetic Projectile was that it would be nice to be able to use it to propel your sword more, instead of grabbing some object in range. Or just another 1d6 cantrip.
Andrew Johns 25 wrote:
I'm not sure whether it would be allowed, but if its not, see:
A bit late, but it would let you do what you wanted.
I'd like a 1 action damage cantrip for when I need an extra action, but I suspect there's a reason why there aren't any (namely, caster's 3rd action).
Another 1d6 cantrip or the option to use Telekinetic Projectile on my weapon with Striking Spell (instead of another object). Makes thematic sense and I don't see it being to hard to convince your DM to let you, but specifically allowing it would be nice.
A Striking Spell can be delivered with any ability that performs a Strike. So you can have Strikes from Attack of Opportunity, Retributive Strike, Hunted Shot, and such trigger the spell. Though, it might get trippy if you use Double Slice, raising the question if all four attack rolls would use the same MAP.
I knew this, but I never thought about AoO... That could be pretty damn strong if you set it up right. Significantly more damage on reaction than most classes have access to. Of course you still have to get AoO somehow, and land your strike and spell (although no MAP is nice), etc, but still.
drakinar 451 wrote:
Not entirely clear in your list, but I like only getting the bonus if you have an imbued spell. It fits the thematics a whole lot better, and if it makes it too much weaker just boost the damage.
I hate to be a downer, but Feather Fall isn't in Martial Casting's list, so it would take one of your 4 high level spell slots. Its doable, sure, but probably not worth it. You can do it with one action using a wand, however none of that is Magus specific.
That makes much more sense.
I don't like the 1H synthesis being forced to be a crit fisher.
I really like Sustaining being able to switch hands. I assume you mean going from a 1H grip to a 2H grip on a Bastard Sword, or similar?
Not sure on the limit to +1 for cantrips, would need to see math. probably fine? Seems like it would start fine and then fall off.
I'd like to see some bonus when the strike crits, even if its just +1 or +2.
The flavor of the Shield synthesis is amazing.
I was going to suggest a stave/magic item synthesis. I still think its a good idea, and could replace the 1H crit fishing, or just be in addition to it (cause I'm not sure where else you'd put it).
Not really sure what such a synthesis would look like, probably rather like Staff Nexus but I'd want the ability to shift it from level 1. Maybe the ability to use your Stride action to draw a wand/scroll to your offhand, too. I'd hope there's more compelling staves in the book to, so you aren't kind of forced to use divination.
Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:
Yeah, that's real similar to what I was thinking, at least with the added damage. I think its flavored better if its more like auto-Energize or Bespell rather than Weapon Expertise, but its functionally the same thing.
Cantrip + Hit should be slightly different because you have no chance of missing all your attacks and wasting the cantrip, and there's no crit boost. Unless that's not factored in? Haven't used that tool.
drakinar 451 wrote:
I have no idea how that works out mathematically, but it looks better. Could even add persistent damage like Bespelled Persistence later on.
The chance to double use the spell seems very strong, probably too much. I could see something like "Punch twice, if one hits cast the spell" which is probably still too strong compared to the baseline Striking Spell, but a bit more reasonable.
Also I'd probably leave out the "You must use the Flurry of Spells action after you Cast a Spell" and let it work the same way as Striking Spell, just with two punches.
And that's even with assuming a save spell and ignoring missing altogether (which granted across 2 turns isn't all that high, but still.)
Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:
Yeah, the extra damage at level 1 is probably a bit strong. Not that hard to have it as a class feature at 4 or 5 though, and maybe upgrades later (i.e. Bespelled Persistence).
1 action Imbue does help a lot.
That's less difference between the +2 and not than I was expecting, tbh. If you're adding things still, adding Cantrip + Strike (no Striking Spell), 2 strikes, and using a spell instead of a cantrip would be nice to see. Not sure how you'd to the last one across all levels, maybe just use Shocking Grasp.
Probably change Discharge to note that it doesn't apply the triggering Strike's MAP until after the spell.
Also, note that doing it like this may prevent it from being used with actions that have a strike as part of them like Combat Assessment, which is one thing I quite liked about the current setup. Probably would just have to word it carefully to allow this.
I still think this and Tiefling's suggestion are a bit to hard on the action economy, you're adding 2 to the current setup. Unless you mean you cast the spell as part of Imbue without adding actions, which isn't clear.
I agree broadly, but IMO I would handle it by getting rid of Energize, allowing Bespell to proc on cantrips, and making it auto-proc on Striking Spell and lasting an extra turn when it does so (so as long as you could have the spell in the weapon). You could just make it as long as you have the spell in the weapon, but this gives you a slight bonus on any 2nd or 3rd strikes and compromises between it activating on cast+imbue and delivery.
You could make it only work with cantrips when used with Striking Spell if its too strong.
Also probably name it Energize not Bespell and note somewhere that it doesn't stack with other class's Bespell Weapon (or don't, it wouldn't go together very well).
And maybe make it a class feature.
I was referring to low level spell slots too, see the 1st and 2nd paragraphs. Generally it seems like level 1/2 spells out scale cantrips around spell level 2-4, depending on the spell and whether you are comparing to Telekinetic Projectile or the 1d4 cantrips, and it gets worse from there (at least for the better spells). Which to me, is still low level spell slots.
Also, Inquisitive Tiefling had an idea here.
Inquisitive Tiefling wrote: