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Of course it's 3x3.

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Actually, what if they just allowed it to be bigger on the inside, very much like Magnificent Mansion (and maybe added the door part, too). I like the flavor of that better than having a huge area, especially if it increases w/ time or levels.

This also helps with the issue of not doing anything if you're already hitting the weakness.

That said, I'd be concerned about it stepping on the toes of debuff casters than Rogue, TBH, Rogue has more options. I.e. applying a constant Sickened (which was suggested elsewhere) then makes ALL debuff spells that don't do more than 1 magnitude useless on that enemy. And making it a non-Status penalty would probably be too strong. I do like the idea though, just not sure how to balance it.

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I agree w/ the size complaint.

Rather than making it movable (besides the 20 feat), I'd prefer a way to make portals or teleport to/from it.

Something to aid in casting scrolls would be nice, either a scroll case or something like the scepter that allows casting scrolls you have on you without drawing them.


Concept Pitch: Is bad
Initial Benefit
-10 Speed, -1 Initiative, Steadying Stone feat

Adept Benefit
10 Physical Resistance/Adamantium, -1 Attack

Paragon Benefit
Stupefied 1, duration of your effects is twice as long, +2 to DC of persistent damage you cause.

Some nice ideas in here too.

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Golurkcanfly wrote:

2) Scroll Feats are super fun, but the action economy is really rough. The Thaumaturge already gets ways to cheat on the action economy when it comes to rummaging through their things between Esoteric Antithesis, swapping implements, and Handy Esoterica. They should also get the benefit when it comes to pulling out their scrolls quickly. If I invest half of my class feats into this one thing, I'd like to be able to use it in combat in conjunction with the rest of my kit.

Seconding this. I think it would be cool if it was tied to an implement, maybe a scroll case implement that lets you cast any scrolls in it, or have Wand let you cast any scrolls you are carrying (although that seems a bit OP with what wand has now).

This is the best "wrap up" post of the issues mentioned elsewhere I've seen.

I think 4 is fine as long as it's accounted for (i.e. Rule of 3 and extra damage).

I also think 5 could be fine. Keep in mind you get 3 implements, and some may be more suited for support. Lantern is a decent 2nd or 3rd choice, and Wand is basically a free cantrip w/ upgrades for a marital. Both could be buffed a bit but they aren't terrible.

Sporkedup wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Sporkedup wrote:
I can't imagine playing any kind of psychic and not taking this feat.
I can't imagine getting it to actually trigger at level 18, because it requires you to get the killing blow with a damaging psi cantrip, and none of the three we have are likely to accomplish that very often against the HP sinks at this level.

The level 19 cleric in my campaign just liked a pleroma with his +1 striking starknife. If that can happen, TKP can claim some souls on a reasonable basis, haha!

It maybe should be a lower-level feat than it is, though.

Yeah, especially since it's competing with 3 focus regen and double Phyche (assuming it is indeed 18).

Arrest Trajectory only giving a +1 bonus, while likely balanced, feels bad given the name (which implies, you know, stopping the projectile). Maybe rename it Alter or Deflect Trajectory?

Xenocrat wrote:
I just don't see using this amp unless I'm using True Strike and a Shadow Signet to hope for the big push back effect.

Note that this doesn't work, since Shadow Signet is a metamagic and you can't use Amps and metamagics.

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For comparison, CHA based:
If you’re affected by a harmful emotion effect, the
discordant emotions sap some of your concentration, causing
your cantrips (including psi cantrips) to heighten to a level 1
lower than normal (or to their minimum level, if it’s higher). For
instance, if you were 5th level, a detect magic cantrip you cast
would be 2nd level instead of 3rd level.

INT based:
Disruptions to your sequences make it more difficult
for you to focus. You’re flat-footed against attacks made as
reactions as you Cast a Spell, and if your spell is disrupted,
you’re stupefied 1 until the end of your next turn.

The Int penalties seem both harsher and more common. Cha usually just loses damage, and only on cantrips, while Int can easily lead to you wasting a spell slot (and I would think it would be more common, although you should be at range).

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Reminds me a lot of Pact/Pale, too. Implement/Familiar/Demesne, oaths, binding circles, etc. Lots of Witch Hunter flavor. Just needs a Stone implement.

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Weapon innovation suggestion:

Integrated Blade (Ranged Only)

The devs have already said they're adding melee abilities for ranged weapons via bayonets or similar (I don't remember the details), I don't see why it would need to be Inventor only. Something to allow melee innovations for those types of attachments would be good though, if it doesn't work by default.

Magus should cover the nova niche a bit. That said, it seems almost like you could have two classes: "Deadeye" focused on aim and reload and "Drifter" as above.

siegfriedliner wrote:

So I feel the big problem is that too many Feats class features are counting on the construct hitting to be effective and construct accuracy really dies a death at higher level.

I feel probably the best ways to sort this is to give them the same proficiencies or attack bonus as the inventor and just have them share map.

Maybe limited to Construct Innovation. So the default construct is roughly in line with an animal companion, but with Construct Innovation it's closer to the Eidolon.

Simple request: Unsteady weapons should be 1+ hands when mounted, and you should be able to mount 2 hand non-unsteady ranged weapons and have them be 1+.

This helps for things like throwing bombs and casting spells while having a mounted weapon, or even pulling out a pistol when someone gets too close to your sniper nest. Plus, it makes more sense: you don't need two hands to hold up a gun on a tripod.

I'd like to see more utility (esp. speed) and damage (integrated weapons and unarmed) modifications as part of the default modification lists, instead of just feats. Feats certainly have a place, but it seems like only Armor have some of the basic modifications (mobility) as feats instead of defaults. Weapon and Construct both have multiple "paths", armor just has which type of DR you want.

A "Dual-Form Armor" feat would also be very cool with more options, so you could say switch from your damaging armor to a full defense armor.

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Unstable Redundancies talks about preventing your innovation from being destroyed, but I can't find any references to destruction in the Unstable text, just preventing you from using Unstable actions until fixed. Is the destruction a leftover from an earlier draft?

A speed boost modification for Armor would also be very nice, and a size modification as was mentioned elsewhere. I'd prefer to see some of the more interesting (i.e. non-DR) modifications moved to the modification list instead of feats, too, so you could build a tank armor innovation, or a utility/movement one, or a unarmed damage one. If that happens, a "Dual-Form Armor" feat would work very well with it.

TheGentlemanDM wrote:
unsteady requires a continuous input of actions to aim

Note that this is only if you're moving, if you are stationary you can set up a tripod with one action and then stay there.

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I really like the flavor of multiple near-single shot pistols. There's lots of design space there, I'd almost advocate for a separate Way focused around preparing multiple pistols (say w/ alchemy) with different effects and choosing which one to use. It also incentivizes keeping a crossbow around as a backup, which I think is neat.

I like this, although I'd worry a little about feat overload.

An possible way to handle that and the action tax is to have magus select their "Main Synthesis" at level 1 as a class feature (from a list of "basic" syntheses that would be level 1 feats) and have entering it (and only it) be a free action.

Somewhat related question: do effects from those strikes apply to the spell? In particular Snagging Strike: do you get a -2 AC for your spell attack?

I've actually been kicking around an idea somewhat like this. To me, the biggest use/thematic importance of magic to the Magus isn't damaging spells, but things like Animate Rope, Message Rune, Wall of Force, Darkvision, Invisibility, Illusionary Object, etc. Combat (and non combat, but mostly combat) utility spells that, you know, feel magical (especially in an Arcane sense), plus the sheer versatility that comes with spellcasting. If I'm just doing damage, I don't care if its from spells slots or focus spells (I'd probably prefer focus spells actually), but losing access to those utility type spells hurts my fantasy of the "Magus" a lot. It feels a bit like the difference between playing say a primal and an arcane caster. Magus is arcane, in mechanics and flavor, but a focus magus like this feels (imo) like something that would fit better with a primal magus flavor wise.

The idea I was playing with is a potential compromise between the arcane caster flavor and these focus spell focused ideas. Something like "Spend a focus point to cast a level <= ceil(your level / 4) spell". I think there would have to be some limits or more costs to it, but adding something along the lines of using focus points to cast low(ish) level spells would (for me) go a long way towards mitigating the flavor costs of a focus magus.

graystone wrote:
nick1wasd wrote:
graystone wrote:
Unicore wrote:
My experience with striker's scroll is that it is awesome.
Can't say I'm a fan of a 'throw money at it' feat. Between that and the odd 'wrapping' the scroll around the weapon thing, it just turned me off.
There is the "Scroll master" archetype that gets free scrolls for a day, I think between Striker's Scroll and the limited amount of spell slots in a day, that archetype will be immensely useful on Magus. Useful to the point of necessity? We'll see, I hope not, but it looks like it might be

I think you mean Scroll Trickster and it's not a lot of scrolls along with being quite a few feats: you could instead get multiple spells of the the same level and/or higher spells to cast with a multiclass and it doesn't take a 10 min out of combat set-up to use.

I think if someone likes the scroll feat and wants to run with it, that's great but I really can't see necessary for any build: if that where the case, I'd say the class fails right out of the gate.

If Magus gets something like Scroll Savant it would be a lot better. It wouldn't surprise me if they do get this or a version of it (hopefully not at level 10 though) and it just didn't make it into the playtest.

I'd suspect the closest you're going to get is Sorcerer MC Magus or visa versa. It would be nice if there's a decent way to do this though.

joshscorcher wrote:
Maybe even transferring the spell to someone else for a spellstrike?

Now that sounds interesting... I'd be wary of getting into a situation where you're better off transferring the spell to the Fighter than using it yourself, but having the ability to give their weapons spells before combat starts? Sounds fun, and flavorful. Although it kind of needs more spell slots.

RexAliquid wrote:
Pinstripedbarbarian wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
Do people just never use cantrips? A lot of gripe in this thread about four slot casting seems to completely ignore their existence.

No one is forgetting about or ignoring cantrips. We just don't want a potentially cool core feature of a class to be reliant on the weakest spells in the game.

To me, using a standard cantrip (not like compositions or hexes) means either I don't have anything better to do or I don't consider the current task a big enough deal to cast a real spell. They're back ups. Reliable, but definitely back ups.

For Magus, I'd be casting them because I can't afford to use a real spell but also I can't do anything interesting with my class without casting something.

... Cantrips aren't the weakest spells in the game. They automatically heighten to be about as good as spells 2 or 3 levels below your best damage spells. A cantrip for damage will always outclass a lower level spell slot for damage. Spell slots are for huge damage spikes or encounter-changing effects. Cantrips are any spellcaster's bread-and-butter.

I wrote this out earlier somewhere, but ignoring crits (which will help them a little), cantrips heightened to spell level 10 do less than Sudden Bolt at spell level 2/3 or Shocking Grasp at spell level 3/4 (depending on whether you are using Telekinetic Projectile or not). And that's just damage, most cantrips are attack spells which will do even worse than save spells like Sudden Bolt (of course Electric Arc is the big standout here). You're almost always better off using a spell slot, assuming full casting, except for your bottom 2 or 3 levels.

I like this kind of setup, although I'd prefer giving more bonuses while you have a spell stored instead of shortening the casting time.

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I'd even be ok with a setup where it's very hard to hit with spells or weapons or both (think Expert proficiency) without using spellstrike, but you get boosts to counter this when a spell is stored in your weapon.

Its a bit extreme, but if it's required to free up enough of the power budget to do something like this, or even better frees up enough for more (damaging, hopefully!) focus spells or spell slots imo its worth it.

Lycar wrote:
TheGentlemanDM wrote:
Striking Spell needs to provide guaranteed or near-guaranteed success for spell attacks if the weapon attack hits.

Aren't you forgetting something? Melee attacks are binary, they either hit for full damage or not at all. But an attack spell will usually still do damage even on a 'successful' save by the enemy, and a Magus even gets a free tier boost on his spell effect, if the melee strike was a critical hit.

In other words, the spell will only fail to inflict at least some damage if the enemy critically succeeds on their save. That is a huge step up from a melee attack, seeing that the initial melee strike even has a (small) chance to boost the spell effect tier.

Of course this makes it even more important for a Magus to go fish for flanks and whatnot to boost their to-hit chance. But at the same time, seeing that they are matching a 'real' martial in accuracy*, also giving them the same spell accuracy as a real caster would pretty much invalidate the melee classes.

* Personally I believe that a Magus should not exceed Expert proficiency in weapons, but rather have a sort of 'Eldritch Accuracy' class feature, that adds +2 to to-hit on every spell strike they perform. In exchange they could maybe add their Weapon Specialisation damage bonus to spell strikes. Of course this would force them into actually using Spell Strike even more, but it is the One Thing one would pick Magus for, no?

Uh, no? Save spells work like this, attack spells (i.e. Shocking Grasp, Polar Ray, almost all cantrips) don't. The difference between save and attack spells does need to be considered here, but its not that great even with save spells currently (someone's ran the numbers, I don't have them handy).

kripdenn wrote:
Ligraph wrote:

I'd like a 1 action damage cantrip for when I need an extra action, but I suspect there's a reason why there aren't any (namely, caster's 3rd action).

Another 1d6 cantrip or the option to use Telekinetic Projectile on my weapon with Striking Spell (instead of another object). Makes thematic sense and I don't see it being to hard to convince your DM to let you, but specifically allowing it would be nice.

I'm pretty sure you can use telekinetic projectile with striking spell. The spell just needs to target a creature or object for you to be able to apply it to your weapon. But telekinetic projectile is only marginally more damage than produce flame on a single hit, but produce flame's critical effect does persistent damage which will end up doing more.

Depends on how often you're critting. You'd have to be critting 14% of the time to make up the difference at level 20, assuming 3 rounds of persistent damage.

What I meant with Telekinetic Projectile was that it would be nice to be able to use it to propel your sword more, instead of grabbing some object in range. Or just another 1d6 cantrip.

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WatersLethe wrote:
Low level utility spells that make you feel like a magical character outside of combat

Definitely this.

Andrew Johns 25 wrote:

I am building a Magus to play in the Slithering going the Shooting Star style. A maneuver I was thinking about using at some point would be spell strike dispel magic, but I don't think it would work if I hit a creature as the spell says target magic effect. What do you guys think? An example I was thinking was a villain cast fly on themselves to fly away. Spell Strike Dispel Magic with the Shooting Star to allow me to do range weapons. Shot bad guy Dispel Magic counter act check vs. Fly spell.

Thanks in advance

I'm not sure whether it would be allowed, but if its not, see:

Magus wrote:


Requirements | You have a spell stored in your weapon or body from Striking Spell.

Your stored spell tries to force out the magic affecting acreature you hit. Make a Strike against a creature. If this Strike discharges the stored spell, you also attempt to counteract a single spell (of your choice) active on the target. The counteract level of Dispelling Spellstrike is equal to the level of the stored spell, and the counteract check modifier is the standard modifier for counteracting with a spell (your Intelligence modifier plus your spellcasting proficiency bonus, plus any bonuses or penalties that specifically apply to counteract checks).

A bit late, but it would let you do what you wanted.

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I'd like a 1 action damage cantrip for when I need an extra action, but I suspect there's a reason why there aren't any (namely, caster's 3rd action).

Another 1d6 cantrip or the option to use Telekinetic Projectile on my weapon with Striking Spell (instead of another object). Makes thematic sense and I don't see it being to hard to convince your DM to let you, but specifically allowing it would be nice.

Cyrad wrote:
A Striking Spell can be delivered with any ability that performs a Strike. So you can have Strikes from Attack of Opportunity, Retributive Strike, Hunted Shot, and such trigger the spell. Though, it might get trippy if you use Double Slice, raising the question if all four attack rolls would use the same MAP.

I knew this, but I never thought about AoO... That could be pretty damn strong if you set it up right. Significantly more damage on reaction than most classes have access to. Of course you still have to get AoO somehow, and land your strike and spell (although no MAP is nice), etc, but still.

drakinar 451 wrote:


This gives you a solid feat tree for a core mechanic that not only is worth while but lets you get far more mileage out of your few spell slots.

Not entirely clear in your list, but I like only getting the bonus if you have an imbued spell. It fits the thematics a whole lot better, and if it makes it too much weaker just boost the damage.

breithauptclan wrote:

I see a lot of complaints about what can't be done that people were hoping for. What are some things that can be done.


Bespell Strikes:

Start battle hanging from the rafters. Probably rolling climb or acrobatics for initiative.

Free action to release grip. Reaction to cast Slow Fall. Free action to use Bespell Strikes. Now you have a full three actions with the +1d6 force damage.

Granted, this isn't specific to Magus. Bespell Weapon can do similar.

I hate to be a downer, but Feather Fall isn't in Martial Casting's list, so it would take one of your 4 high level spell slots. Its doable, sure, but probably not worth it. You can do it with one action using a wand, however none of that is Magus specific.

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Ligraph wrote:

Cantrip + Hit should be slightly different because you have no chance of missing all your attacks and wasting the cantrip, and there's no crit boost. Unless that's not factored in? Haven't used that tool.

Ah no, this is based off my modified version. 2 actions, can trip and strike together. Cantrip/Spell always goes off even if the swing hits, hitting just gives it +2.

Basically a massive buff to what it is now. The current version will have way lower numbers than this even for three actions.

That makes much more sense.

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I don't like the 1H synthesis being forced to be a crit fisher.

I really like Sustaining being able to switch hands. I assume you mean going from a 1H grip to a 2H grip on a Bastard Sword, or similar?

Not sure on the limit to +1 for cantrips, would need to see math. probably fine? Seems like it would start fine and then fall off.

I'd like to see some bonus when the strike crits, even if its just +1 or +2.

The flavor of the Shield synthesis is amazing.

I was going to suggest a stave/magic item synthesis. I still think its a good idea, and could replace the 1H crit fishing, or just be in addition to it (cause I'm not sure where else you'd put it).

Not really sure what such a synthesis would look like, probably rather like Staff Nexus but I'd want the ability to shift it from level 1. Maybe the ability to use your Stride action to draw a wand/scroll to your offhand, too. I'd hope there's more compelling staves in the book to, so you aren't kind of forced to use divination.

Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:
drakinar 451 wrote:

I like the concept of dumping a spell into my weapon and letting it sit there augmenting my attacks until I use it. Though the damage bump at level 1 is a bit much but could be worked around.

1- change damage type.
3- add 1 damage per damage die of the weapon.
5- add 1 damage per damage die of the imbued spell.

It doesn't add damage at level 1- at least not as I've written it- it only changes the damage type of the weapon, using the Bespell Weapon feat as a basis. As a result it would innately scale with the runes on the weapon as well as your Strength.

Using your idea for things like Weapon Expertise though? That could totally work. Maybe increase the bonus damage from Weapon Expertise to [X] while it's under the effects of Imbue Weapon.

Yeah, that's real similar to what I was thinking, at least with the added damage. I think its flavored better if its more like auto-Energize or Bespell rather than Weapon Expertise, but its functionally the same thing.

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Updated Chart. This has the lower magus proficiency factored in. The second +1 line is what it would look like if you got +2 to your cantrip attack roll if your sword hit.

That's less difference between the +2 and not than I was expecting, tbh. If you're adding things still, adding Cantrip + Strike (no Striking Spell), 2 strikes, and using a spell instead of a cantrip would be nice to see. Not sure how you'd to the last one across all levels, maybe just use Shocking Grasp.

This is with shock grasp and the +2 if you hit. Cantrip+Hit will just be the lower line, except it takes 3 actions! (Electric arc would do damage to a second target though.

Adding an extra strike to both just makes you fall further behind the fighter, he is just better at it!

Cantrip + Hit should be slightly different because you have no chance of missing all your attacks and wasting the cantrip, and there's no crit boost. Unless that's not factored in? Haven't used that tool.

drakinar 451 wrote:

I like the concept of dumping a spell into my weapon and letting it sit there augmenting my attacks until I use it. Though the damage bump at level 1 is a bit much but could be worked around.

1- change damage type.
3- add 1 damage per damage die of the weapon.
5- add 1 damage per damage die of the imbued spell.

I have no idea how that works out mathematically, but it looks better. Could even add persistent damage like Bespelled Persistence later on.

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Hate to double post but can't edit.

So heere is my full pitch:

Esoteric Disciple -or- Mystic Disciple
You seek perfection of both body and mind, wielding your knowledge to imbue your strikes with Arcane might.
You gain the Arcane Fists Magus Feat. You also gain the Flurry of Spells action.
Flurry of Spells <1 Action>
Flourish Trait; Magus Trait
When you use your Striking Spell, you store the spell in two of your unarmed Strikes. You must use the Flurry of Spells action after you Cast a Spell. This action lets you make two unarmed Strikes, both of which are imbued with the spell you cast. These attacks follow the normal multiple attack penalty. On a successful hit, you cast the imbued spell on each attack. If you miss with one of the attacks, the spell is lost. This spell is calculated at half your Magus level, rounded up (to a minimum of 1.)

I'm no designer. So it is probably very poorly written and executed. But that is the gist of one of my ideas.

The chance to double use the spell seems very strong, probably too much. I could see something like "Punch twice, if one hits cast the spell" which is probably still too strong compared to the baseline Striking Spell, but a bit more reasonable.

Also I'd probably leave out the "You must use the Flurry of Spells action after you Cast a Spell" and let it work the same way as Striking Spell, just with two punches.

Ramanujan wrote:

That is a net gain ... but a seriously tiny one, and getting the probability that high requires being prepared to spend all your actions for two rounds attempting to land the spell (though obviously you'd stop early if you succeeded on the first try).

I started writing this thinking Spell Strike seemed pretty good. I ended up persuading myself it isn't.

And that's even with assuming a save spell and ignoring missing altogether (which granted across 2 turns isn't all that high, but still.)

Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:
Ligraph wrote:

An important thing to note is that this is a level 1 class feature; having it add on damage when it would be much less circumstantial than say, a Rogue's sneak attack, would be a slippery slope to take. I'd potentially take the route of having it give the effects of Energized Strike, but changing the damage type of the weapon is fairly powerful. You're able to take advantage of weaknesses to all sorts of damage and/or bypass resistances with each and every swing of your weapon. That damage will undoubtedly add up over time.

Another thing I didn't get across too clearly is that, while it's marked as Metamagic, Imbue Weapon does not make a total of three actions. You cast the spell as part of performing the Imbue Weapon action. And then for the next minute your weapon does magic damage and at your discretion, the spell can be released as an explosive finisher.

Yeah, the extra damage at level 1 is probably a bit strong. Not that hard to have it as a class feature at 4 or 5 though, and maybe upgrades later (i.e. Bespelled Persistence).

1 action Imbue does help a lot.

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Updated Chart. This has the lower magus proficiency factored in. The second +1 line is what it would look like if you got +2 to your cantrip attack roll if your sword hit.

That's less difference between the +2 and not than I was expecting, tbh. If you're adding things still, adding Cantrip + Strike (no Striking Spell), 2 strikes, and using a spell instead of a cantrip would be nice to see. Not sure how you'd to the last one across all levels, maybe just use Shocking Grasp.

Kyrone wrote:

Adapting the idea of Inquisitive Tiefling and Clinton here of separating the feature into smaller ones.

Imbue Weapon (1 action)
Once per round.
Cast a spell of 2 actions or lower that can target 1 creature into the weapon. The spell stays in the weapon until the end of your next turn.

Discharge Spell (1 action)

Requirement: The last action was a successful strike.

You Discharge the spell into the target, if the spell had an spell attack roll use your attack roll result to determine the effects of both the Strike and the spell, if it required a save the target takes -2 status penalty to their save before applying the spell effect. This counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty, but you don't apply the penalty until after you've completed both attacks.

Probably change Discharge to note that it doesn't apply the triggering Strike's MAP until after the spell.

Also, note that doing it like this may prevent it from being used with actions that have a strike as part of them like Combat Assessment, which is one thing I quite liked about the current setup. Probably would just have to word it carefully to allow this.

I still think this and Tiefling's suggestion are a bit to hard on the action economy, you're adding 2 to the current setup. Unless you mean you cast the spell as part of Imbue without adding actions, which isn't clear.

beowulf99 wrote:

And really, Bespell Strikes should probably just be removed from the class if it can't proc on Cantrips, or if the Magus doesn't gain more spell slots. The mileage just isn't there imo for it to be worth it.

I agree broadly, but IMO I would handle it by getting rid of Energize, allowing Bespell to proc on cantrips, and making it auto-proc on Striking Spell and lasting an extra turn when it does so (so as long as you could have the spell in the weapon). You could just make it as long as you have the spell in the weapon, but this gives you a slight bonus on any 2nd or 3rd strikes and compromises between it activating on cast+imbue and delivery.

You could make it only work with cantrips when used with Striking Spell if its too strong.

Also probably name it Energize not Bespell and note somewhere that it doesn't stack with other class's Bespell Weapon (or don't, it wouldn't go together very well).

And maybe make it a class feature.

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Kalaam wrote:

What if Magus had more spells per day ?

Or if it was the same number of actions but hitting the Strike would make the Spell hit too (expect for saves)

Maybe? If the spell hits if the sword strike does it is very swingy though. More lower level spells doesn’t help too much I think, they become worse than cantrips for damage.

Really? Afaik at spell level 10 a regular cantrip does 10d4 damage so 25 average. Telekinetic Projectile does 10d6 for 35 average.

Meanwhile Sudden Bolt (same scaling as Chain Lightning) does 26 at spell level 2, and 39 at 4. Shocking Grasp is one level behind. Although they are both d12s, so a bit more swingy. And note they scale at 1d12/level vs a cantrip's 1d4 or 1d6, so the difference only gets worse.

Sudden Bolt does 71.5 average damage at spell level 9, and Shocking Grasp does 65 (again, vs a cantrip's 25/35). Of course I did cherry pick my spells a bit, there's only a few that do more, but its not out of the realm of posibility.

Of course this doesn't take the cantrip's bonus effects into account or the Int mod damage bonus, but I don't think there's really a point where cantrips do more than low level spells (other than level 1/2 spells, ofc).

I was referring to low level spell slots, not low level spells heightened to the max. Most lvl 1 spells are worse than cantrips after a few levels. Lvl 2 ones are often better, but depends on the level and by how much.

I was referring to low level spell slots too, see the 1st and 2nd paragraphs. Generally it seems like level 1/2 spells out scale cantrips around spell level 2-4, depending on the spell and whether you are comparing to Telekinetic Projectile or the 1d4 cantrips, and it gets worse from there (at least for the better spells). Which to me, is still low level spell slots.

Also, Inquisitive Tiefling had an idea here.

Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:

So, lots of people find Striking Spell to be.... contentious, putting it both mildly and nicely. Despite being a free action metamagic given at level 1 to all Magus, it ultimately does nothing to improve the spell's capabilities or truly deliver on the fantasy of imbuing your weaponry with your arcane prowess. That sucks, obviously. But it's equally as obvious that Paizo is trying to be very careful with how they balance the Magus. If Striking Spell is too strong, then Magi are likely going to be doing more single-target damage than most other martial classes. And I think that's part of the problem: the Magus chassis is trying to fit too much into one feature.

So my suggestion is to decouple Striking Spell into two separate components, combined under the familiar name of Spell Combat: Imbue Weapon and Spellstrike. Both of which are as follows:

Imbue Weapon
1 action
Concentration, Open, Metamagic, Magus
You channel the power of your spellcasting into your weapon, sacrificing raw power for arcane finesse. Choose a spell gained from your Magus class; the power of that spell is now channeled into your weapon. While your weapon is imbued with a spell, your weapon's damage type changes based on the school of the spell in question, as the Bespell Weapon feat. The effects of Imbue Weapon last for one minute, after which the spell is lost and spell slot (if using a non-cantrip, non-focus spell) is expended. For the purposes of weaknesses and resistances, combine the damage type of Imbue Weapon with damage of the same type from other sources applied to the weapon (such as a Flaming property rune) before applying weaknesses and resistances.

2 actions
Attack, Magus, Flourish, Finisher
Requirements: You are wielding a weapon you have used for Imbue Weapon.
With a focused attack you unleash the full force of your spell in a burst of magical power. Make a Strike. If the Strike hits you unleash the spell used for Imbue Weapon on the creature you struck. If the spell...

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