No more Powerful Alchemy for Alchemist Dedication?


Rules Discussion


Late to the errata party, but I hadn't thought about using alchemist dedication before.

Seemed like Powerful Alchemy was important for some of the niche things I wanted to do (mostly Tanglefoot Bags), but after checking the errata, this is an automatic class feature (yay for Alchemist mains) and... no longer in the class list? Uh oh, that means according to RAW I can no longer pick it up for my Alchemist Dedication.

Am I reading this right? Some other bit of errata that I missed that addresses this?


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You are correct that Alchemist MC no longer has that option. No similar ability is available to them.


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Similar to Rogue archetype. You can't get DEX to damage, and while you can pay a feat to get Sneak Attack, it never progresses past 1d6.


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breithauptclan wrote:
Similar to Rogue archetype. You can't get DEX to damage, and while you can pay a feat to get Sneak Attack, it never progresses past 1d6.

True, but also less similar in that this was something they could have picked up before the errata and I'm not really sure if nerfing MC alchemists was intentional.


Hmm...

Errata (part 2) wrote:
Alchemist DC scaling is highly dependent on the feat Powerful Alchemy, so we decided to make it an automatic class feature instead to free up more feats. Add powerful alchemy to the class features at 5th level, and remove it from the list of alchemist class feats.

Indeed. Because it is so needed for Alchemists to work properly it is being included for free in the Alchemist class features ... But then becomes unavailable to the Alchemist Archetype.

Personally I would just add it to the feats available for selection via Advanced Concoction. Would be a houserule, but probably a needed one. It is a 5th level class feature, yes? So make it available as a 5th level feat to the archetype. But that would mean you have to be 10th level to pick it up. Maybe split the difference and make it so that a 6 or 8 level class feat can pick it up.


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Powerful Alchemy was a level 8 feat, so level 16 for Alchemist Dedication. You were supposed to have Alchemist Dedication, Quick Alchemy, Basic Concoction and it was kind of pointless without Expert and Master Alchemy, 6 feats in total. And, as you say, it was niche.
I think you're the only one who would ever complain about this change considering how hard it was to get it and how specialized your build needed to be.
But anyway, the feat was available at level 16. So, just explain it to your GM and grab it. I don't think anyone would object about such a weird feat choice.


Squiggit wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Similar to Rogue archetype. You can't get DEX to damage, and while you can pay a feat to get Sneak Attack, it never progresses past 1d6.
True, but also less similar in that this was something they could have picked up before the errata and I'm not really sure if nerfing MC alchemists was intentional.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was, saw a lot of discussion about the MC being better than the class.


Guntermench wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Similar to Rogue archetype. You can't get DEX to damage, and while you can pay a feat to get Sneak Attack, it never progresses past 1d6.
True, but also less similar in that this was something they could have picked up before the errata and I'm not really sure if nerfing MC alchemists was intentional.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was, saw a lot of discussion about the MC being better than the class.

I suspect it was that way because they intended the multiclass character to use the alchemist DC and not the class DC.

I mean, I suppose they happend to write "use instead your class DC" referring to the alchemist class DC ( since it was an alchemist feat, and they probably forgot about the fact the feat could have been taken as archetype ).


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So the annoying thing is this: Powerful Alchemy never helped with Tanglefoot Bags to begin with.

CRB wrote:
Alchemical items you create on the fly are particularly potent. When you use Quick Alchemy to create an infused alchemical item that allows a saving throw, you can change its DC to your class DC.

Tanglefoot Bags don't allow a Saving Throw. They have a DC for you to beat with an Escape Check. Powerful Alchemy, sadly, does not apply.

The only Bomb that has a Saving Throw is Thunderstone, iirc.


ottdmk wrote:

So the annoying thing is this: Powerful Alchemy never helped with Tanglefoot Bags to begin with.

CRB wrote:
Alchemical items you create on the fly are particularly potent. When you use Quick Alchemy to create an infused alchemical item that allows a saving throw, you can change its DC to your class DC.

Tanglefoot Bags don't allow a Saving Throw. They have a DC for you to beat with an Escape Check. Powerful Alchemy, sadly, does not apply.

The only Bomb that has a Saving Throw is Thunderstone, iirc.

wow, thanks for that catch. sad, i guess.

i guess if i ever get that high level to worry about it i'd ask the GM to use some upgrade rules to let me craft higher level tanglefoot bags. not sure how serious an idea this character was anyway.

in practice, what is more useful for such things anyway? the speed penalty or wasting an enemy action? even a low escape DC isn't bad i guess if it wastes an action and adds a -5 penalty to an actual attack that turn.


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You can make higher level tanglefoot bags. Here is the usual progression for Alchemist MC.

Alchemist Multiclass

You can compare it to the progression for full Alchemists.

Alchemist Class


SuperBidi wrote:

Powerful Alchemy was a level 8 feat, so level 16 for Alchemist Dedication. You were supposed to have Alchemist Dedication, Quick Alchemy, Basic Concoction and it was kind of pointless without Expert and Master Alchemy, 6 feats in total. And, as you say, it was niche.

I think you're the only one who would ever complain about this change considering how hard it was to get it and how specialized your build needed to be.
But anyway, the feat was available at level 16. So, just explain it to your GM and grab it. I don't think anyone would object about such a weird feat choice.

Thank you. I said as much in the 2e-only sub and I got told off for "telling people how to play the game"... I mean cmon I'll give you the option if you really want it, but you still won't take it.

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