The Inquisitor archetype [/url] gets access to [url=https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/slayer-talents#TABLE-Slayer-Talents]Slayer Talents
The talent I have a question about is Ranger Combat Style
The slayer selects a ranger combat style (such as archery or two-weapon combat) and gains a combat feat from the first feat list of that style. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites. At 6th level, he may select this talent again and add the 6th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list. At 10th level, he may select this talent again and add the 10th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list.
I am interested in the Archery Style feats
Far Shot, Focused Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot.
At 6th level, he adds Crossbow Mastery, Improved Precise Shot, Parting Shot, Point Blank Master and Manyshot to the list.
At 10th level, he adds Pinpoint Targeting and Shot on the Run to the list
What I am confused about is whether you must have taken a pre-6th level feat with the talent before you can select a 6th or 10th level feat
I want to pick up this talent at 8th level and select Archery: Manyshot with it but I will not have taken any Ranger Archery combat style feat before then (I will however have picked up the usual archery feats with my regular feats), is that allowed?
In order to use the Ranger Combat Style Slayer talent to get access to the 6th level feat list, you must be selecting it the 2nd time.
"Ranger Combat Style (Ex)
Benefit: The slayer selects a ranger combat style (such as archery or two-weapon combat) and gains a combat feat from the first feat list of that style. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites. At 6th level, he may select this talent again and add the 6th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list. At 10th level, he may select this talent again and add the 10th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list."
If you're not selecting it for the 2nd time, you're not getting access to the 2nd tier of the feat pool.
Otherwise, you could just take the talent at 10th level to pick up point blank master which is the biggest draw of the ranger combat style. Everything else can be acquired without restrictions (just a matter of having enough feats) but Point Blank Master is restricted due to normally requiring Weapon Specialization.
In order to use the Ranger Combat Style Slayer talent to get access to the 6th level feat list, you must be selecting it the 2nd time.
"Ranger Combat Style (Ex)
Benefit: The slayer selects a ranger combat style (such as archery or two-weapon combat) and gains a combat feat from the first feat list of that style. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites. At 6th level, he may select this talent again and add the 6th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list. At 10th level, he may select this talent again and add the 10th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list."If you're not selecting it for the 2nd time, you're not getting access to the 2nd tier of the feat pool.
Otherwise, you could just take the talent at 10th level to pick up point blank master which is the biggest draw of the ranger combat style. Everything else can be acquired without restrictions (just a matter of having enough feats) but Point Blank Master is restricted due to normally requiring Weapon Specialization.
Okay thank you, so follow up question. Does the Sanctified Slayer qualify for the Extra Slayer Talent Feat?
RAW would likely be a no, as the class ability is not called "Slayer Talent", but that is also a very nit picky reason when the ability is giving you Slayer Talents and is called something like "Talented Slayer". On the other hand, you are only getting four slayer talents from the archetype and the ability to freely trade feats to just pick a combat feat without following prerequisites is extremely powerful when it is at virtually no cost.
RAI, I could see many people ignoring the above because you still have to wait till level 9 before you could even begin to take Extra Slayer Talent anyway, and that is where a bunch of other good feats begin to open up for an Inquisitor anyway.
That's a really grey area. Can a life oracle take selective channel? They don't have the Channel Energy ability, but an ability just called Channel. Can the paladin take it? They don't have the ability Channel Energy but an ability called Channel Positive Energy.
The typical wisdom is that if you have an ability that looks acts and sounds like another ability, then you have that ability.
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Sean K. Reynolds' (designer on PF1) "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck" post on terminology.
One key quote among many:
And if for some reason two things that seem almost the same (like "channel energy" vs. "channel" vs. "channel positive energy") shouldn't act exactly the same, count on us to tell you how it is different.
So yeah, Slayer Talent and Talented Slayer are the same except - as is specifically called out - the inquisitor archetype never gains access to Advanced Talents.
Also there is an FAQ (sorry can’t find the link right now) that says that features that function almost identically count as that feature. The example given was the fighter weapon training feature and an ability called spear training I believe. The faq stated that if an ability functions the same it counts as that feature regardless of the actual name of the feature.
Here is the quote “ Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?
It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)
Example: The dragoon (fighter) archetype (Ultimate Combat) has an ability called "spear training," which requires the dragoon to select "spears" as his weapon training group, and refers to his weapon training bonus (even though this bonus follows a slightly different progression than standard weapon training). Therefore, this ability counts as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training, such as gloves of dueling (Advanced Player's Guide), which increase the wearer's weapon training bonus.
Example: The archer (fighter) archetype gets several abilities (such as "expert archer") which replace weapon training and do not otherwise refer to the weapon training ability. Therefore, this ability does not count as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training (such as gloves of dueling). This is the case even for the "expert archer," ability which has a bonus that improves every 4 fighter levels, exactly like weapon training.”
Not sure if this quite applies in this situation though as this is an archetype from a different class than slayer.
Not sure if this quite applies in this situation though as this is an archetype from a different class than slayer.
I’ve always hated that FAQs ruling on expert archer… expert archer IS weapon training restricted to bows only… but because they copied the effect of weapon training instead of referencing the ability of weapon training it “doesn’t count as weapon training”… and because of that the FAQ doesn’t count very many archetype abilities as the original class abilities they are based on… sanctified slayers talented slayer ability would most likely fall under the same “it doesn’t count” ruling that expert archer falls under because it doesn’t say you get slayer talents as the slayer talent ability but instead gives you the short version of the slayer talent rules (exactly like how expert archer gives the short version of the weapon training rules).
Yeah, RAW is often going to be a "go f&~% yourself" here and in similar cases, but I think virtually anyone you'd want to play with is going to ignore RAW here as well as well as in the more specific case that the FAQ mentioned.
Yeah my feelings are if it says you gain slayer talents then you have the slayer talent class feature just like every class that gains an animal companion gains the animal companion class feature.
Yeah, while RAW might say no I think RAI would say "Yeah you can spend a feat to pick up Extra Slayer Talent to get the Ranger Combat Style talents sooner than you would otherwise."
But remember, the earliest you can take it is level 9, since you don't have the class feature until Sanctified Slayer 8, and don't get another feat until level 9.
To be honest, IMO it's a somewhat weak choice to do so as you should have picked up all the first tier options well before level 8. So you probably have to retrain to lose a feat so you can pick it up via the talent at level 8. Although at level 9 (spending the feat), using it to get Point Blank Master is good, but mostly just mitigates the downside of being an archer, not adding to your offense. And then, if you choose to do so taking it again at level 11 (again via feat) to pick up Improved Precise Shot is another fair boost.
But doing so is costing you feats, though if you were a fighter you would have been spending feats in the same way. The fighter just gets more of them.
As an Inquisitor, I forget if there are any really interesting feats outside or archery to be interested in. I'd have to go back and look at my old builds.
Sean K. Reynolds' (designer on PF1) "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck" post on terminology.
One key quote among many:
And if for some reason two things that seem almost the same (like "channel energy" vs. "channel" vs. "channel positive energy") shouldn't act exactly the same, count on us to tell you how it is different.So yeah, Slayer Talent and Talented Slayer are the same except - as is specifically called out - the inquisitor archetype never gains access to Advanced Talents.
Unless you're an Invulnerable Rager Barbarian. Because then, your Damage Reduction isn't called Damage Reduction, and thus can't be increased by the Rage Power that increases Damage Reduction.
But Wizards selecting Familiar stuff with their class feature named Arcane Bond is totally okay.