Has any way to get a divine caster into arcane trickster, short of a three level "dip" ever been found since the SLA FAQ got reversed?
Depends on how much cheese you're willing to swallow.
Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 2nd level or higher.
No Caster Level is required, just an "ability to cast". And since drinking a potion or UMDing a wand makes you the caster of that spell, *technically* you just need to own two of those to qualify.
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Depends on how much cheese you're willing to swallow.
Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 2nd level or higher.No Caster Level is required, just an "ability to cast". And since drinking a potion or UMDing a wand makes you the caster of that spell, *technically* you just need to own two of those to qualify.
LOL, that doesnt work that way at all. Using a magic item isn't "able to cast spells"
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
thats using a wand, not casting a spell. there are several differences between the 2
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Equipment trick - sunrod - like the sun, or possibly equipment trick - mirror - trickster's mirror might let you get away with a single level dip.
If there are any Domains that give Mage Hand as a divine spell... I would allow you to enter Arcane Trickster with 2nd level divine spells... all other prerquisites being the same. That's just me, though.
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The trait Two World Magic can get you Mage Hand... I'd allow any moderately rogue-themed build to qualify, depite being a divine caster.
Arcane Trickster is fun... I would rather have someone playing what they want, rather than taking a dumb dip that will ultimately do their character no good. Arcane Trickster isn't overpowered, by any means. It is a straight downgrade in BAB and power for a lot of divine casters... so there is very little reason to deny access to it.
If someone wants Tricky Spells instead of Greater Bane, be my guest. Lol.
An onmyoji spiritualist gains access to mage hand as a 0-level divine spell.
Being able to cast a 2nd-level version of dancing lantern as an arcane spell via a dip in bard or skald and the Equipment Trick would technically work. Bard and skald also have mage hand on their spell list, for other divine casters.
Possibly one of the more straightforward routes to arcane trickster for a divine caster would be six levels in druid* with the Crocodile domain (for sneak attack via Ambush) and one level of bard or skald. Maybe druid 3/[bard or skald] 1 (select mage hand and dancing lantern as spells known)/druid +3 (select Equipment Trick/Sunrod and Accomplished Sneak Attacker as feats at 5th and 7th character level)/arcane trickster. A [bard or skald] 1/sanctified slayer inquisitor 4 (select Equipment Trick/Sunrod and Accomplished Sneak Attacker as feats at 3rd and 5th character level) could qualify for arcane trickster 2 levels earlier, but is only a 6/9 divine caster.
*- perhaps with the feyspeaker archetype to cast with Cha, since BAB will be generally low anyway
The trait Two World Magic can get you Mage Hand... I'd allow any moderately rogue-themed build to qualify, depite being a divine caster. {. . .}
Rules As Written, that isn't enough, because you need to be able to cast at least one arcane spell of 2nd level or higher, so you still need a 1 level arcane spellcasting class dip + Equipment Trick (Mirror or Sunrod).
I am also in favor of divine entry into Arcane Trickster (although then it should be renamed, as 2nd Edition actually does, although reportedly the Eldritch Trickster Rogue Racket just isn't very good). But somebody warned me a few months ago that this caused some posters to develop rabies . . . then on the other hand, that's a perfect lead-in for a Divine Trickster of Urgathoa . . . . For an adversary (NPC, where you don't have to worry so much about optimizing to the same level) devoted to Norgorber, I had originally thought of a 4 level dip in Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue (get both Sneak Attack and 2nd level arcane spells) + 1 level of Cleric going into Arcane Trickster and progressing Cleric spellcasting. That's a BIG dip and thus bad for a PC (so give the NPC 1 more total level to compensate), but it is just 1 more level than what you would have to do before Accomplished Sneak Attacker came out (unless you dipped in 2 Sneak Attack classes), and it isn't totally without benefit -- get free Weapon Finesse and Dex-to-Damage with 1 weapon (Unchained Rogue), a modicum of arcane spellcasting that's useful for utility, and a Rogue Talent/Ninja Trick; take Accomplished Sneak Attacker at character level 5 = Cleric level 1. One big problem for any Divine Trickster would be the same problem that a Sorcerer-based (other than Sage Sorcerer) Arcane Trickster has -- not being Intelligence-based, they won't get very many skill ranks per level, and Eldritch Trickster Rogue gives you just 4 per level instead of the normal 8 per level, before adding whatever bonus you get for Intelligence, so better be Human and take the Cunning feat and take skill points for Favored Class Bonus (and if the NPC isn't significantly higher than the end of the Arcane Trickster prestige class, make the favored class be Rogue rather than Cleric).
somebody warned me a few months ago that this caused some posters to develop rabies
I think they've moved on. A sign that PF1 is losing interest perhaps, but not unwelcome despite that.
^Not so sure that PF1 is losing interest -- judging by the posts and threads that I have been finding, interest actually seems to have picked up a bit in the last few months, although still nowhere near what it was in the glory days before PF2 . . . .
Some of it may be that PF1 is in a "finished state" and people have had a chance to "catch up" on the published content.
Some of it may also just be mood. Speaking for myself, I will periodically get "burned out" with a given set of rules and will go back to another set of rules for a month or two until I "recharge."
Speaking of finished state, now that this has occurred, it would be nice to have updated guides for several things that don't have them, including Arcane Trickster.
I don't think I could feel justified using the Equipment Trick to qualify for AT, but I hadn't thought about the Eldritch Scoundrel as a way to qualify instead of Wizard. Four levels seems like a big dip, but it's not really all that much worse than the way that the class was originally designed to be entered. Plus, with Crocodile domain, Nature's Fang archetype, and Accomplished Sneak Attacker, this allows for a druid AT that will get the full 10d6 SA cap, and druid's have plenty of good spells to use with surprise spells.
I don't think I could feel justified using the Equipment Trick to qualify for AT, but I hadn't thought about the Eldritch Scoundrel as a way to qualify instead of Wizard. Four levels seems like a big dip, but it's not really all that much worse than the way that the class was originally designed to be entered. Plus, with Crocodile domain, Nature's Fang archetype, and Accomplished Sneak Attacker, this allows for a druid AT that will get the full 10d6 SA cap, and druid's have plenty of good spells to use with surprise spells.
I like that except for one problem: Your Familiar will be really stunted, even with Boon Companion.
Oracle with the Haunted curse.
That's good for getting you Mage Hand, but unfortunately doesn't do anything about the requirement to be able to cast arcane spells of 2nd level or higher, and taking a long time to retrieve things (even if the Haunted Curse FAQ's do exempt drawing a weapon and retrieving spell components) is not a good thing for an Arcane (Divine) Trickster, and having things you drop land 10 feet away is also not a good thing for an Arcane (Divine) Trickster.
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Oracle with the Haunted curse.That's good for getting you Mage Hand, but unfortunately doesn't do anything about the requirement to be able to cast arcane spells of 2nd level or higher, and taking a long time to retrieve things (even if the Haunted Curse FAQ's do exempt drawing a weapon and retrieving spell components) is not a good thing for an Arcane (Divine) Trickster, and having things you drop land 10 feet away is also not a good thing for an Arcane (Divine) Trickster.
Ahh so levitate and minor image is now cast as a divine spell...
Perhaps it would be nice to know why the OP wants to use a divine chassis for a arcane trickster. What are the goal?
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I like that except for one problem: Your Familiar will be really stunted, even with Boon Companion.
Familiars aren't affected as much by class level though - natural armour and Int score is really all you're getting since HD are explicitly tied to character level and HP are directly based on character HP. The only reason I'd even be looking at Boon Companion would be to get Able Defender on a Protector version of the Familiar.
Perhaps it would be nice to know why the OP wants to use a divine chassis for a arcane trickster. What are the goal?
Largely the novelty. And I've always found the sneak attack and other AT abilities more interesting for a divine caster than for a wizard.
I like that except for one problem: Your Familiar will be really stunted, even with Boon Companion.Familiars aren't affected as much by class level though - natural armour and Int score is really all you're getting since HD are explicitly tied to character level and HP are directly based on character HP. The only reason I'd even be looking at Boon Companion would be to get Able Defender on a Protector version of the Familiar.
Hindrance of natural armor progression would actually be rather painful on a Protector Familiar. Also, since Able Defender comes at 11th level, you will have to get yourself up to epically high levels to get yourself to the point at which Boon Companion bumps your Familiar's progression to 11th level, unless you cut Arcane (Divine) Trickster short.
ok I ask, if I am an oracle or another divine class and I have the mage hand and as a requirement of the second level of Arcane magic I obtain it with spell like ability then would you qualify for arcane trickster?
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ok I ask, if I am an oracle or another divine class and I have the mage hand and as a requirement of the second level of Arcane magic I obtain it with spell like ability then would you qualify for arcane trickster?
No, because of the FAQ the OP mentioned - SLAs don't count for "able to cast spells" prereqs. Here is the link.
Has any way to get a divine caster into arcane trickster, short of a three level "dip" ever been found since the SLA FAQ got reversed?
There is one RAW and unambiguous way: The spellcaster guilds in Inner Sea Magic, which have an ability that says "choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice." A later ability increases this to +3.
It's not easy to do, though. Your character needs to be at (and occasionally return to) one of a couple certain spots on Golarion, pay a fee, pass a skill check to enter (fairly easy with take 10 though), and then you need to do some checks and tasks, which have a limit to how often you can attempt them. If you take a three-level-dip into Wizard or Witch you can actually have a full divine caster progression this way, provided you can get Sneak Attack without losing a level.
I haven't found those rules at either d20 or AoN, so I can't link to them.
Equipment trick - sunrod - like the sun, or possibly equipment trick - mirror - trickster's mirror might let you get away with a single level dip.
That's highly dubious - while you have it prepared or know, it's still a 1st level spell, only during the process of casting it is it actually (treated as) a 2nd level spell. I see it like the Warlock Vigilante's Mystic Bolts, which count as a weapon attack, but don't count as holding a weapon at any other time.
But somebody warned me a few months ago that this caused some posters to develop rabies
I really don't understand this. I mean, the early-access-tricks are easy to nix, and if people want to waste three (or four) levels on their full caster just to get the most overrated class feature in all of Pathfinder... why should a GM be against that? It makes their job much easier!
ok I ask, if I am an oracle or another divine class and I have the mage hand and as a requirement of the second level of Arcane magic I obtain it with spell like ability then would you qualify for arcane trickster?No, because of the FAQ the OP mentioned - SLAs don't count for "able to cast spells" prereqs. Here is the link.
Sad but true. This was not too far away from the time that they decided that you aren't allowed to have a Witch who can't spell (well before the fairly recent introduction of the Seducer).
Has any way to get a divine caster into arcane trickster, short of a three level "dip" ever been found since the SLA FAQ got reversed?There is one RAW and unambiguous way: The spellcaster guilds in Inner Sea Magic, which have an ability that says "choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice." A later ability increases this to +3.
It's not easy to do, though. Your character needs to be at (and occasionally return to) one of a couple certain spots on Golarion, pay a fee, pass a skill check to enter (fairly easy with take 10 though), and then you need to do some checks and tasks, which have a limit to how often you can attempt them. If you take a three-level-dip into Wizard or Witch you can actually have a full divine caster progression this way, provided you can get Sneak Attack without losing a level.
I haven't found those rules at either d20 or AoN, so I can't link to them.
I don't know where it is either, but I could have sworn that when I saw somebody mention it a few years ago, it was some kind of training relevant to the Pathfinder Society. Let me know if you find anything.
But somebody warned me a few months ago that this caused some posters to develop rabiesI really don't understand this. I mean, the early-access-tricks are easy to nix, and if people want to waste three (or four) levels on their full caster just to get the most overrated class feature in all of Pathfinder... why should a GM be against that? It makes their job much easier!
I don't understand it either, but I want to make a story out of it . . . .
somebody warned me a few months ago that this caused some posters to develop rabiesI think they've moved on. A sign that PF1 is losing interest perhaps, but not unwelcome despite that.
PS I was wrong, lyssavirus is still circulating in the PF1 community.
^For a second I misread that as Lissalavirus . . . okay now I have to figure out how to include that in the story.
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ok I ask, if I am an oracle or another divine class and I have the mage hand and as a requirement of the second level of Arcane magic I obtain it with spell like ability then would you qualify for arcane trickster?No, because of the FAQ the OP mentioned - SLAs don't count for "able to cast spells" prereqs. Here is the link.Sad but true. This was not too far away from the time that they decided that you aren't allowed to have a Witch who can't spell (well before the fairly recent introduction of the Seducer).
Has any way to get a divine caster into arcane trickster, short of a three level "dip" ever been found since the SLA FAQ got reversed?There is one RAW and unambiguous way: The spellcaster guilds in Inner Sea Magic, which have an ability that says "choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice." A later ability increases this to +3.
It's not easy to do, though. Your character needs to be at (and occasionally return to) one of a couple certain spots on Golarion, pay a fee, pass a skill check to enter (fairly easy with take 10 though), and then you need to do some checks and tasks, which have a limit to how often you can attempt them. If you take a three-level-dip into Wizard or Witch you can actually have a full divine caster progression this way, provided you can get Sneak Attack without losing a level.
I haven't found those rules at either d20 or AoN, so I can't link to them.
I don't know where it is either, but I could have sworn that when I saw somebody mention it a few years ago, it was some kind of training relevant to the Pathfinder Society. Let me know if you find anything.
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Faction Guide maybe?
I don't know where it is either, but I could have sworn that when I saw somebody mention it a few years ago, it was some kind of training relevant to the Pathfinder Society. Let me know if you find anything.
Er... what? The rules I was talking about are a subsection of the "magic schools" from Inner Sea Magic - I know where they are and what they do, I just can't find them online.
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Try this (note the mortal talents ability): https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/mortal-us her/
Linkified for your convenience. No, that's not the spellcasting progression boost we were thinking of either. That is like Evangelist's Aligned Class, but only 5/9 as often.