I assume they have to do some kind of penance, although what it would entail would depend a lot on the deity. Iomedae would probably have them save a kid from a burning building or something else really heroic, while Urgathoa would probably say something like "kill ten enemies of my religion and make them undead."
I assume they have to do some kind of penance, although what it would entail would depend a lot on the deity. Iomedae would probably have them save a kid from a burning building or something else really heroic, while Urgathoa would probably say something like "kill ten enemies of my religion and make them undead."
This is really a GM call, and is honestly something great for homebrew content, if any. It's not like APs have any atonement campaigns for the PCs.
But really, it depends on the reason an Atone ritual was performed. Maybe the PC chose to let a killer loose due to personal gripes with someone out of spite, maybe the PC decided that his family member wasn't meant to be sacrificed as a skeletal creature to their deity, even though they were chosen to do so. The bottom line is that the penance should be appropriate to what caused the shift in favor to begin with.
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I assume they have to do some kind of penance, although what it would entail would depend a lot on the deity. Iomedae would probably have them save a kid from a burning building or something else really heroic, while Urgathoa would probably say something like "kill ten enemies of my religion and make them undead."
Per the cleric class rules:
"If you perform enough acts that are anathema to your deity, or if your alignment changes to one not allowed by your deity, you lose the magical abilities that come from your connection to your deity. The class features that you lose are determined by the GM, but they likely include your divine font and all divine spellcasting. These abilities can be regained only if you demonstrate your repentance by conducting an atone ritual."
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Pretty much depends on the deity and the deed
Sarenrae is big on second chances, so it is probably something to roughly equalize your wrongdoing
You let an undead get away? Try to re-dead a few others, the more powerful the better.
You let someone suffer? Go on an arduous quest to help people who need a lot of help, battle a plague, heal wounded after a big battle
You didn't let someone get their batter chance? Work to improve your character, help others to get their second chance
Alternatively go out and heal people - should always do at least something in sarenraes eyes
Calistria is a goddess of revenge, you will most likely toil a bit
Got to consumed by love? Make a messy breakup and seek the hedonistic thrills she wants her followers to have. Maybe start an orgy and set your future-ex up to walk in on it.
You let a slight go unanswered? You better answer the next one very loudly. Make an example out of whomever wronged you
Asmodeus
The question is not 'how do I get out of this' but rather 'how many souls do I have to sacrifice/send to damnation in hell?'
Gozreh
Plant a forest or something, the more you effed up, the bigger the forest
Generally speaking - to right a wrong caused by an anatheme, do the opposing edict and crank it up to eleven
the meaner the god the more you got to do (and of course you have to put your heart into it (in some rare cases literally))
For game mechanics, the anathema rules reference the Atone ritual.
Which you and your table may or may not use.
For lore, role-play, and flavor: whatever your imagination can come up with.
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Note that the atone ritual states: "You attempt to help a truly penitent creature atone for its misdeeds, typically actions contrary to your deity’s alignment or anathema to your deity. If the creature isn’t truly penitent, the outcome is always a critical failure." (emphasis mine)
This isn't a "get out of jail free" or "bribing the gods" activity. Atone is a request to be given the opportunity to 1) be examined/judged whether they show genuine contrition and are worthy of reinstatement and 2) if worthy undertake a quest/task to prove their dedication to the deity's principles. Note that 1) is no mere lip service, as indicated by the text quoted above. And 2) will likely not provide much, if any, reward to the individual undertaking it beyond being reaccepted into the deity's fold.
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I dislike that the Atone ritual, like its predecessor the Atonement spell, still sounds so much like bribing the gods.
Well, you can always flavor to taste. For evil gods I recommend Gaslighting them. Removing the monetary cost wouldn't be too far out of bounds. Or flavor it as charitable offerings, purchasing equipment for town defenses, or financial support to the families of those you wronged. Things like that.
"20 gp x the target's level" is not a tremendous cost, even in PF2e, after the first few levels. Yes, it is a high bar for a 1st-3rd level character and a steep price at 4th-6th (based on the "lump sum" column of Table 10-10); after that, it becomes less and less of a hit to the character's resources.
It might be a better idea to set the cost lower at lower levels and higher at higher levels; maybe 5gp x (level x level) to account for the geometric progression of wealth as levels increase. Or possibly set the cost based on the number of atone rituals the character has undergone.
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It isn't necessarily money you a offering - the gold cost of a ritual is the cost of materials required for a ritual. This probably includes fancy candles, little statues, herbs, incense, animal sacrifices, etc.
It's not like you are just piling up a heap of gold and praying it away.
Historically, this was pretty standard in religious rites before the advent of Christianity (which instead just asks for money).
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It isn't necessarily money you a offering - the gold cost of a ritual is the cost of materials required for a ritual. This probably includes fancy candles, little statues, herbs, incense, animal sacrifices, etc.
It's not like you are just piling up a heap of gold and praying it away.
Historically, this was pretty standard in religious rites before the advent of Christianity (which instead just asks for money).
In the case of Abadar, it probably is just a lump of money *joke*.
(This part have nothing to do with you Tendrils)
But I really like the idea to fit the cost to the deity. Besmara wants looted money dumped in unreachable water, Abadar might want investment in trade or their guard force + taking a fee for himself, sarenrae to donate and spend time with those who needs it, Norgorber in poison, dumped around the city, etc.
Comitting anathema should not just be a "sidequest" and be forgiven but it could solidly be a part of the whole thing. Comitting anathema should be hard to do and seen as something extreemly hurtful to the deity, such as raising undead as a pharasma cleric, even if you just allow it passively.
Just imagine being betrayed, would you even speak to the one who betrayed you?
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In the case of Abadar, it probably is just a lump of money *joke*.
Hah, I'm picturing setting a gold bar down on a set of scales at the temple. If at the end of the ritual, the bar outweighs your sins, you are forgiven, XD
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One thing that has come up in a quote earlier but doesn't seem to have made its way into discussion much is that simply committing your deity's anathema once is unlikely to cause a full break and loss of powers. For most classes the anathema section says that you lose powers for violating anathema enough times, which fair for some especially intolerant deities might be once.
Point is, you typically don't need to atone for making a mistake, the gods understand that life is messy and stuff happens in pursuit of their ideals. It's when you either keep making mistakes often enough that you begin to demonstrate that you're obviously not taking this whole moral/ethical code so seriously, or perhaps you commit a single egregious act of anathema with no extenuating circumstances, that you have to atone by ritual.
If your deity wants to send you a sign that they disapprove of your activities without excommunicating you from their faith, they have a variety of curses they could lay down with intercession. If you haven't been dropped clean out of your deity's good graces, I imagine the way to make amends is simply to go on living a righteous (in your deity's eyes) life, perhaps including some gesture which specifically aims to correct the error you made before (if possible). If you *have* committed such sins as your deity has cut you off of their power, you need both to truly repent for those sins and to go to an elder of your faith and enact a ritual reconsecrating yourself and dedicating yourself anew to that deity's principles.
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I'm pretty sure the monetary cost of the ritual is not a direct propitiation to the deity, and more a function of "if you don't get the right candles, the right incense, the right scented oils, etc. then the ritual isn't going to work and a lot of this stuff you can't just reuse."
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There's a big piece of the atone ritual being left out and that's that completing the ritual itself doesn't get you the atonement. The supplicant also has to:
Before the atonement is complete, the creature must perform a special quest or other task chosen by your deity, as befits its misdeeds. If completed during downtime, this task should take no less than 1 month.
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In the case of Abadar, it probably is just a lump of money *joke*.Hah, I'm picturing setting a gold bar down on a set of scales at the temple. If at the end of the ritual, the bar outweighs your sins, you are forgiven, XD
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One thing that has come up in a quote earlier but doesn't seem to have made its way into discussion much is that simply committing your deity's anathema once is unlikely to cause a full break and loss of powers. For most classes the anathema section says that you lose powers for violating anathema enough times, which fair for some especially intolerant deities might be once.
Point is, you typically don't need to atone for making a mistake, the gods understand that life is messy and stuff happens in pursuit of their ideals. It's when you either keep making mistakes often enough that you begin to demonstrate that you're obviously not taking this whole moral/ethical code so seriously, or perhaps you commit a single egregious act of anathema with no extenuating circumstances, that you have to atone by ritual.
If your deity wants to send you a sign that they disapprove of your activities without excommunicating you from their faith, they have a variety of curses they could lay down with intercession. If you haven't been dropped clean out of your deity's good graces, I imagine the way to make amends is simply to go on living a righteous (in your deity's eyes) life, perhaps including some gesture which specifically aims to correct the error you made before (if possible). If you *have* committed such sins as your deity has cut you off of their power, you need both to truly repent for those sins and to go to an elder of your faith and enact a ritual reconsecrating yourself and dedicating yourself anew to that deity's principles.
In fact, the 40 Deities that received detailed lore in Gods & Magic all have curses that a deity might inflict on a wayward cleric to indicate their displeasure before stepping up to full power removal.
In the case of Abadar, it probably is just a lump of money *joke*.Hah, I'm picturing setting a gold bar down on a set of scales at the temple. If at the end of the ritual, the bar outweighs your sins, you are forgiven, XD
{. . .}
This sounds disturbingly familiar . . . .
I'm pretty sure the monetary cost of the ritual is not a direct propitiation to the deity, and more a function of "if you don't get the right candles, the right incense, the right scented oils, etc. then the ritual isn't going to work and a lot of this stuff you can't just reuse."
Now I'm trying to think of a deity for whom an essential part of the atonement ritual would be to try to cheese the ritual at the steepest discount possible . . . .
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In the case of Abadar, it probably is just a lump of money *joke*.Hah, I'm picturing setting a gold bar down on a set of scales at the temple. If at the end of the ritual, the bar outweighs your sins, you are forgiven, XD
{. . .}This sounds disturbingly familiar . . . .
I'm pretty sure the monetary cost of the ritual is not a direct propitiation to the deity, and more a function of "if you don't get the right candles, the right incense, the right scented oils, etc. then the ritual isn't going to work and a lot of this stuff you can't just reuse."Now I'm trying to think of a deity for whom an essential part of the atonement ritual would be to try to cheese the ritual at the steepest discount possible . . . .
Norgorber, I'd imagine, though it might depend on which of his cults that you're seeking an atonement ritual from.
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Far easier and cheaper to just change deity, since there are AFAIK no mechanical disadvantages to this.
I dunno. The curses I mentioned in my earlier post might be inflicted on a Cleric who decides to abandon their faith, especially for the more vindictive gods.
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Unless said new deity was already attempting to seduce you to the dark side or was reasonably certain it had you more under its thumb than your old one did, perhaps out of fiendish hubris or otherwise.
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^^Given the way some fiends think, the ideas in the above 2 posts are not mutually exclusive.
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Just go to the deity that really fits your worldview, your true values and your behavior. They should be delighted to get such a naturally faithful new adherent, doubly so if you are already accustomed to wielding great divine power. And the old deity might be relieved to be rid of your faithless self before you pollute the rest of their flock.
Note though that their mortal churches and cults might feel differently.