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From Inner Sea Intrigue-
[A] training weapon grants one combat feat to the wielder as long as the weapon is drawn and in hand. The feat is chosen when this special ability is placed on the weapon.
So can players put this on spiked gauntlets, armor spikes, shield spikes, and other things they're not intending to attack with in order to gain extra feats?
It seems like "a spiked gauntlet" is "drawn and in hand" even if you're using that hand to swing a greatsword, likewise shield spikes even if you don't use your shield to attack with. But things like armor spikes, blade boots, and tail blades aren't ever intended to be held in one's hands, so is the training enhancement incompatible with those? I'm not sure how to adjudicate this. It seems like "spend 8kish gold to get a feat" is either a really good idea or kind of unbalancing.
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In further explanation, the OP is talking about a "Weapon Special Ability" called "Training". It appears in Pathfinder Campaign Setting Inner Sea Intrigue on page 52. It is a +1 equivalent.
Spiked Gauntlets cannot be drawn. Armor spikes, shield spikes and boulder helmets are neither drawn nor held in hand. Note also that the weapon's user would need to meet any of the feat's prerequisites to use the feat associated with the weapon.
This is a way for an exotic magic weapon to include the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat in the weapon itself or something similar. Expect any competent GM to veto combat feats that don't make sense when applied to a particular weapon in this way.
EDIT: It may be that, like the Defending weapon special ability, the weapon may actually have to be used as well because it may be a "use-activated" special ability, although this does not seem to be the case at first glance.
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This is a way for an exotic magic weapon to include the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat in the weapon itself or something similar. Expect any competent GM to veto combat feats that don't make sense when applied to a particular weapon in this way.
In what way does it make me incompetent for thinking that it makes perfect sense for a weapon to magically enchanted to be easily usable?
This is a way for an exotic magic weapon to include the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat in the weapon itself or something similar. Expect any competent GM to veto combat feats that don't make sense when applied to a particular weapon in this way.In what way does it make me incompetent for thinking that it makes perfect sense for a weapon to magically enchanted to be easily usable?
He's not referring to the example he gave in the first sentence. He's referring to something like having the enchantment give Weapon Finesse when its on a greatsword. Or having it give Dueling Mastery on anything other than an Aldori dueling sword. Feats that don't actually do anything for the weapon.
Since a +1 enchantment allows your sword to burst into flames, stab ghosts, or become nonlethal somehow despite being a sword it's not exactly a stretch to think that a magical enhancement could help you swing extra hard (granting power attack), improve your reflexes (granting combat reflexes), become light and easy to wield (granting weapon finesse), etc. Most combat feats the training enhancement could grant are subtler than the effects of a whole lot of weapon enhancements people don't bat an eye at.
That the feat training grants does not count as a prerequisite underlines that you, personally, don't actually know how to do this, it's just the item that's helping you do it.
So from that heuristic perspective, it makes every bit as much sense for your spiked gauntlets to be able to help guide your hands as it does for your greatsword to be able to guide your hands. I see no reason that a gauntlet that magically helps steady your hand when aiming a bow could not also grant an archery feat via training.
He's referring to something like having the enchantment give Weapon Finesse when its on a greatsword. Or having it give Dueling Mastery on anything other than an Aldori dueling sword. Feats that don't actually do anything for the weapon.
You are correct. The Greatsword is an excellent example. Another might be Traditional Weapons on an exotic weapon, firearm, or technological weapon. (since it would have to be drawn and in hand to function, but having such a weapon drawn and in hand would negate the bonuses from the feat).
I am still not convinced that a gauntlet can be both drawn (since gauntlets aren't drawn but donned like armor) and in hand. If I have my winter gloves in hand, that implies I'm holding them not wearing them.
It may still be the case that the weapon must actually be USED for the granted feat to be functional (as the defending property), but we won't know for sure until the devs tell us, hence why I FAQ request tagged this thread.
Since a +1 enchantment allows your sword to burst into flames, stab ghosts, or become nonlethal somehow despite being a sword it's not exactly a stretch to think that a magical enhancement could help you swing extra hard (granting power attack), improve your reflexes (granting combat reflexes), become light and easy to wield (granting weapon finesse), etc. Most combat feats the training enhancement could grant are subtler than the effects of a whole lot of weapon enhancements people don't bat an eye at.
All perfectly good examples.
So from that heuristic perspective, it makes every bit as much sense for your spiked gauntlets to be able to help guide your hands as it does for your greatsword to be able to guide your hands. I see no reason that a gauntlet that magically helps steady your hand when aiming a bow could not also grant an archery feat via training.
I don't believe that gauntlets, even if given this enchantment, will activate, since they cannot be drawn and are not in hand when worn.
I do, however, think it's quite possible for a dagger to have Two-Weapon fighting on it, so that it can be paired with another one-handed weapon for, well, two-weapon fighting.
EDITn: argh ! Square brackets !
I am still not convinced that a gauntlet can be both drawn (since gauntlets aren't drawn but donned like armor) and in hand. If I have my winter gloves in hand, that implies I'm holding them not wearing them.
For me the feat is saying that the weapon has to be 'ready to use'. By that I mean could you make an AoO with it. So gauntlets holding a weapon don't work but ones holding nothing would. That's what I'm going with until/unless it's ruled differently.
It may still be the case that the weapon must actually be USED for the granted feat to be functional (as the defending property), but we won't know for sure until the devs tell us, hence why I FAQ request tagged this thread.
It would be just awful to add more things to the Defending type wielding. Any feat that affects the attack wouldn't work until AFTER you've attacked meaning that you would gain NOTHING from the feat. Then add the confusion of the feat blinking off and on throughout combat on workable feats... Please no.
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Personally, I'd say that it is in your hand because you can attack with it like any weapon, and can indeed be drawn because you can't actually draw a spear from a sheathe, but you can pick one up and any reasonable GM would allow you to use a spear with this feat.
Drawn just means "not stowed away on your body somewhere" in this case, I feel. Words have specific meanings in Pathfinder, not just their usual dictionary definitions. I wouldn't call a housecat tiny in real life, but calling it small would be abjectly incorrect in Pathfinder.
You're still spending two +1 bonuses on something you don't even plan on attacking with though, if you just use those gauntlets to hold a sword. It's too expensive to provide much in the way of benefit.
The training enchantment still requires that the user qualify for the feat, and still only does what the feat says it does. Which means that if you put training on a weapon that the feat doesn't apply to (Dualing Mastery on non-Aldori Dueling swords), then it's a waste.
Drawn and in hand means that you are ready to use them...as in you don't have them sheathed or in your backpack. With certain weapons, such as cesti, this means that they are essentially always available, unless you are holding other weapons in those same hands.
