How do you use a scouting / recon familiar without getting it killed?

[DRD1812]

Here's my thinking. Familiars are squishy. In most cases, they should probably stay out of combat. And if you want them to pull their weight as a class feature, that means you want to leverage them outside of combat.

My natural inclination is have 'em serve scouting duty. But as any rogue will tell you, rolling Stealth and being the first guy in the room will eventually land you in trouble. So what am I missing here? How do you use a familiar for recon purposes without watching it die every other encounter? Is there a best familiar for the job? Some kind of disposable familiar that resurrects easily? Or is it just about waiting until improved familiar and invisibility come online?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

[HighLordNiteshade]

In games I've played, familiars who are common for the climate / location don't usually attract negative attention / attacks from the bad guys. An owl scouting ahead outside, a rat scouting inside a dungeon, a cat scouting inside a barn...these are unlikely to get attacked/killed. It can get a little trickier if the Owl is in the dungeon, the rat is in someone's home, the cat is in a temple. Even in those cases, I don't think they would automatically result in an attack...it might depend on the intelligence of what spots them. A wizard in a dungeon might see an owl and think "familiar / animal companion" and attack, but I'm not sure the average Orc / Goblin / etc. would...they might be confused but that confusion wouldn't necessarily lead to an immediate attack. In summary, at low levels, (pre-Invisibility), the party is likely to be facing low-level and/or low-intelligence enemies that wouldn't necessarily see all familiars as an immediate threat.

[yukongil]

this takes a bit of setup, but in my experience its surefire success; so make it loudly and annoyingly known how much you love animals and abhor those who mistreat them. Then start small; in a superhero game, give your super a favorite pet, be sure to mention that you lovingly take care of them, but never involve them in heroing. Then ramp up, get a horse in the next fantasy game, name them, take care of them, take special attention on how you make sure they have the best stable and feed, etc. Throw in some conversations about games (Fallout is nice for this) on how you love Dogmeat for instance, but can't take him out of the house as the sound of him whimpering when hurt breaks your heart. Now, you GM should be primed, take that familiar, dote on them, love them and use them to the fullest extent, getting teary-eyed anytime anyone or thing threatens them. Visibly fume if something dares declares it as a target of anything other than pets or treatos. Abuse their game safe in the knowledge that they'd rather your familiar successfully scout everything than deal with your complete break from sanity should something happen to your beloved imaginary petfriend.

[Ryze Kuja]

At lvl 11 and 12+, Familiars gain SR equal to your lvl +5, so that's pretty spiffy, but you can cast: Contingency + "If my familiar is attacked with any weapon, harmful spell, or any other thing that would be harmful, cast Dimension Door". This solves a lot of problems before they start. If you don't have Contingency/DDoor on your spell list, then fork up the money to buy scrolls, or you can chance it and fork up the money to summon a new familiar :P

Before the mid-game, Invisibility/Reduce Person affects your familiar due to Share Spells, and that's a pretty sizeable increase of +24 to your stealth check while moving, and a +44 while not moving. Remember to increase the enemy's Perc DC by 1/10DC for every 1ft they are from your familiar too. You can also cast Mirror Image, Mage Armor, Shield, and Blur on your Familiar if you know for a fact it will be attacked.

[SheepishEidolon]

DRD1812 wrote:

How do you use a familiar for recon purposes without watching it die every other encounter? Is there a best familiar for the job? Some kind of disposable familiar that resurrects easily?

There is the figment archetype for familiars. They can't die because they are just imagined, though they will disappear for the rest of the day when their HP are depleted. Further, they have only half the HP of a regular familiar and the master has to stay within 100 feet.

So you get rid of the expensive, annoying ritual of bonding to a new familiar, but still need a cautious playstyle.

[Firebug]

I've used Duplicate Familiar a couple of times, but that was more for a Protector to split out the damage.

As a 5th level wizard spell though, you would have had several other options for scouting at that point. Scry, Arcane Eye, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, etc.

[VoodistMonk]

It helps to start with the correct familiar... like a Bat/Butterfly/Cockroach... something Diminutive in size, preferrably with a means of flight. Although the Tarsier boasts a mighty Stealth and can jump quite well.

If you must have a Tiny familiar, go for something like the Ptarmigan or Rhamphorhynchus.

[PCScipio]

The most important thing is not to annoy the GM!

[Ryze Kuja]

PCScipio wrote:

The most important thing is not to annoy the GM!

^----- #1 way to make the familiar survive, this thread is done.

[Firebug]

VoodistMonk wrote:

It helps to start with the correct familiar... like a Bat/Butterfly/Cockroach... something Diminutive in size, preferrably with a means of flight. Although the Tarsier boasts a mighty Stealth and can jump quite well.

If you must have a Tiny familiar, go for something like the Ptarmigan or Rhamphorhynchus.

Or play a Kitsune with Fox Shape and join your fox familiar in scouting.

Or convince your entire party to play a pack of 'foxes'...

[Artofregicide]

Nosoi psychopomp or any improved familiar with fly, at will invisibility, and speech.

Beware, this strategy becomes more perilous at higher levels and will need to be augmented with spells.

[Mark Hoover 330]

There are SO many ways to protect your familiar while it is scouting. If you're in an environment with Cover, simply have it move from those Squares using Stealth. There's also the Vanish spell or later, Invisibility. Sharing spells, give it Mirror Image or other protections.

There are Archetypes, like Figment but also Mauler for beefing up it's HP and defenses. You can pick up an Improved Familiar. There is a spell that shares damage between you and your familiar, another one that auto-recalls a familiar to you if it takes damage. Teamwork feats and a Valet familiar can work too, if you're willing to go with it.

Honestly, I haven't had the chance to PLAY PF1 much but I have had one PC make it to level 3 with an Owl familiar and another to level 8 with a Wolf animal companion. In both games from level 1, both creatures were used for some measure of scouting. I can tell you that the wolf was targeted far more than the owl was if I compare the first 3 levels.

Last, but certainly not least... Consumables and Cantrips. Often it is some kind of arcane caster that has a familiar. At level 1 many familiars are Tiny or Diminutive, with a 12-19 Dex. Toss Haunted Fey Aspect or Resistance on a familiar if you can, cast Vanish from a cheap scroll or whatever. It should be VERY difficult for your scouting familiar to be spotted as a target in the first place.

[DRD1812]

PCScipio wrote:

The most important thing is not to annoy the GM!

I learned that lesson in my first 5e campaign. My familiar was a raven, and the game was a viking game. My shtick was that this bird is a lesser servant of Hugin and Munin. In the opening scene of the campaign my guy performed the ritual to call him down from Asgard. As a rite of passage he went alone out into the woods, made the necessary offerings, and watched as the black speck winged its way down from Bifrost, a sure sign of Odin’s favor. And what did I do with this blessing of the gods?

“Viigar! Mimic a human crying for help. Lead the orcs away from the village.”

The orcs killed the poor little feather duster with extreme prejudice. That brought in Viigar II. He lost all one of his hit points from exposure to a Thunderwave spell. Viigar III came gamely back, and was with the party when we crossed the treacherous footpath towards a witch’s castle. Our ranger felt hungry eyes upon us, and so I sent Viigar up to scout.

“Look,” said my DM. “I get no pleasure from killing your bird. I’ll let him use your saves, OK? So have him make a Fort save with your bonuses vs. the fiendish wolf’s gaze attack as he crests the ridge.” And that’s how I acquired Viigar IV.

The ranger accused me of animal cruelty. I think that all the blame lay with my GM though.

[Sysryke]

The second Viigar's death seems legit, just bad luck with an AoE spell.

Without knowing more of the particular details, the first death in particular, and the third maybe, seem a little bit questionalble. How did the orcs spot the raven? How did they know the sound came from him? How did they get to him up in the tree or air, before he safely flew away? Similar questions with the wolf. Seems like your GM was a little arbitrary/punative.

If you keep loosing familiars though, save all the wings. Could make for a cool back story on how you eventually craft your own cloak of the Raven.