So, how does a PC get rid of the Curse of the Werewolf if they fail a save versus Jaul's bite? Is remove curse enough, or do they need any shenanigans with belladonna or the like, as per older edition of the game?
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So, how does a PC get rid of the Curse of the Werewolf if they fail a save versus Jaul's bite? Is remove curse enough, or do they need any shenanigans with belladonna or the like, as per older edition of the game?
The werewolf entry of the bestiary specifies it can be removed like any other curse. Notably, though, you'd probably use the werewolf's level to determine the counteract DC.
So, how does a PC get rid of the Curse of the Werewolf if they fail a save versus Jaul's bite? Is remove curse enough, or do they need any shenanigans with belladonna or the like, as per older edition of the game?The werewolf entry of the bestiary specifies it can be removed like any other curse. Notably, though, you'd probably use the werewolf's level to determine the counteract DC.
Thank you, I must have missed that.
Had a great game! Voidglutton caught two party members, they researched the 3 books of Volluk and discovered he planned to turn himself into a Worm That Walks, and they put some research into the Rose guard just before finding Otari. They were like 14 XP away from level 5 at that point. I really want to let them level up between sessions, especially because they have had to flee multiple fights on this floor.
Am I missing an XP award for learning everything from Otari or recovering the Roseguard keepsakes? The party had already obtained the Thresholds of Truth without knowing its significance.
Trying to decide what to do with the two PCs left behind with the Voidglutton. It lacks Medicine so I'm not sure it could paths them up, so I could roll to see if the unconscious PCs stabilize or just handwave it. I think it is more interesting if the PCs can rescue their friends once they have leveled up.
The ethereal webs are mentioned to have a stasis effect, so that might keep the PCs from starving to death... But I'm also not sure what would stop the Laughing Shadow Magus from Dimensionally Assaulting his way out of a web cocoon given it is verbal only.
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2 sessions in and the players are most of the way to Level 2. They've missed a lot of secret doors and investigation spots. They glommed onto Boss Skrawng's map pretty hard and haven't even noticed the outbuildings and extra doors that he didn't draw. I'm afraid none of them are even going to roll high enough to find the secret door down to Level 2.
The Corpselights are a pretty nasty fight for first level characters! My party decided to half-ass running away when they realized that the things did a huge amount of damage, and it ended with a Corpselight using its cone attack while they were clumped up for a TPK. (I was also a little mean to them and started them at night, so it may have been a little more difficult than intended.) The party had broken through the stained glass window and were outside, so I had Wrin drag them back to town instead of making everyone roll new characters.
Having a blast so far!
(the Dwarf investigator worships Kols...).
I wonder how he'll get along with Urevian. :-)
A question: Is the name "Abomination Vaults" known at all in Otari? Is it known by any of the denizens of the first four levels? Lower levels? (I expect Belcorra knows the name as I think she chose it).
Reason I ask is that I was watching a play-through on Youtube and the GM kept using the term, as if "everybody knows it". I would have thought "players and gms know it, characters in the game mostly don't".
A question: Is the name "Abomination Vaults" known at all in Otari? Is it known by any of the denizens of the first four levels? Lower levels? (I expect Belcorra knows the name as I think she chose it).
Reason I ask is that I was watching a play-through on Youtube and the GM kept using the term, as if "everybody knows it". I would have thought "players and gms know it, characters in the game mostly don't".
The people of Otari canonically don't know it. My assumption was that from the library on down denizens are aware of it.
I'm unsure where it starts to be considered the Vaults though.
Is the Lantern of Empty Light actually intended to be a bull's eye lantern? The item description says yes but the art says no. It also mentions people have seen Volluk carrying it in the distance which seems less likely with a bull's eye.
The Thaumaturge in my party might turn it into their new implement and I'm trying to decide how it will work.
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If someone's already mentioned this I missed it but...
When the party finds Otari's body, he's described as wearing "rotten leather armor" and yet one of the items in the treasure list for this encounter is "+1 studded leather armor". Doesn't seem to me like folks would want to wear (or buy) rotten armor, but +1 studded leather is another story. How have folks handled this? One could just ignore the "rotten" bit -- after all, most magical items seem relatively immune to the ravages of time -- or one could say it's rotten, but maybe the potency rune is salvageable. Comments?
If your party has the tools to move the rune, just use those and let it rot. If they don't, or it is more fun to let them immediately sling it on, then let it be magically preserved. Maybe rotten is really just the corpse and mold and it can be cleaned off.
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Am I missing a description somewhere for Volluk's 3 books (What The Worm
Knows, Grave Feasts, and Secrets of the Skull)? My party found the list back in his office and they're most likely gonna find the actual books next sessions, I'm pretty certain they're gonna try to read them for information but I'm not really sure what info to give for them, the book just seems to say they can sell them
The books are forshadowing the fact that Volluk has transcended his drow form. Reading the books could give the players hints as to what they might face later on.
My group wanted to study these books as well. I just gave them some flavor in vague, general terms:
- What the Worm Knows: an obscure treatise that hypothesizes that vermin, mainly insects such as worms, leeches and beetles, can retain and absorb memories from exterior sources and might even develop or host a consiousness/'hive mind' when exposed to occult magics.
- Grave Feasts: deals with several types of critters that feast on cadavers. Several passages, theorizing that these critters might absorb rudimentary knowledge of the 'host' they feed on, are underlined.
- Secrets of the Skull: en esotheric theory concerning consciousness/the soul, discussing whether counsciousness is 'tethered' to the brain or if it could be seperated from the material body.
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That's perfect lol, thanks! I hope you don't mind if I steal these xD
Sure, go for it! :-D
Am I missing a description somewhere for Volluk's 3 books (What The Worm
Knows, Grave Feasts, and Secrets of the Skull)? My party found the list back in his office and they're most likely gonna find the actual books next sessions, I'm pretty certain they're gonna try to read them for information but I'm not really sure what info to give for them, the book just seems to say they can sell themThe books are forshadowing the fact that Volluk has transcended his drow form. Reading the books could give the players hints as to what they might face later on.
My group wanted to study these books as well. I just gave them some flavor in vague, general terms:
- What the Worm Knows: an obscure treatise that hypothesizes that vermin, mainly insects such as worms, leeches and beetles, can retain and absorb memories from exterior sources and might even develop or host a consiousness/'hive mind' when exposed to occult magics.
- Grave Feasts: deals with several types of critters that feast on cadavers. Several passages, theorizing that these critters might absorb rudimentary knowledge of the 'host' they feed on, are underlined.
- Secrets of the Skull: en esotheric theory concerning consciousness/the soul, discussing whether counsciousness is 'tethered' to the brain or if it could be seperated from the material body.
I went a step further and once the party had invested sufficient time in reading the books (and hit a DC 25 Occultism check) they made the connection that whoever marked up the book might have been researching transforming into a Worm That Walks. Knowing one of them is coming is BFD, especially so they don't let any leeches escape.
A while back a short story (something about the woods) was posted s a touchstone/reference for the Abomination Vaults. Does anyone remember what that was? I was looking for reading material for a trip. Thanks.
Was it The Waters of Stone Ring Pond and/or The Shroud of Four Silences (linked inside the blog post)?
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6shi5?The-Waters-of-Stone-Ring-Pon d
(Sorry not good with links, you’ll have to push the final letters together to make the link work right)
What ancestry is Belcorra. SOunds like she is human but her art makes her look elven.
Human.
I was hoping to get some tips on what I could use as "critical fail" results for non-monster knowledge checks? I was prompted by looking at some of the high DCs in Chapter 1 and also one of my parties have low intelligence across the board
What I did notice in making this list is how few of these my players have actually asked to roll for. I'm not sure how many I should potentially be secretly rolling for people. But that seems unfair given critical failure results so I am waiting for people to ask. I have suggested a potential for a couple
Floor 1:
DC15 Nature (Mitflit Dung) - “Magic Pixie Mud”
DC15 Magic (Powerful destructive spells caused damage) - Natural damage
DC18 Arcana/Occultism (Teleportation Circle) - ?
DC18 Arcana or Nature (Draconic Creature ate frog) - ?
DC15 Religion (Skeletons and Ghosts are connected) - ?
DC10 Society (Crude map of Otari) - Absalom map?
DC20 Society (Haunt of Belcorra) - Perhaps confuse for a goddess?
DC25 Religion (Nimbolath Symbol) -Variant of another religion? Urgathoa?
DC25 Religion (Shrine to Nimbolath) - As above?
DC12 Society (Crooks Nook Fishcakes) - ?
DC16 Society (Osprey Club Symbol) - ?
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What is the purpose of Mezmin's advice? How does keeping eyes closed help the heroes?
I suspect there was some other puzzle here that was a victim of editing. Jaul's advice doesn't make a difference in the puzzle as written.
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I have two puzzles about D19 The Forever Stairs.
First: The description of D19 mentions a Will DC to disbelieve the illusory wall that obscures the alcove that leads to Belcorra's suite.
I thought disbelieving used Perception, not Will. Is the text a mistake, or am I misunderstanding the rules of illusions?
Second: Jaul Mezmin advises the heroes to keep their eyes closed if they ever want to escape the nightmare stairs.
I don't get how that helps. As far as I can tell, the two doors that lead out of the stairs are plainly visible, and so keeping eyes closed would not help with those.
And the illusory wall that obscures the way to Belcorra's suite is level 5, and so feels right to the touch, and so the heroes would be just as fooled by touching it as by looking at it.
What is the purpose of Mezmin's advice? How does keeping eyes closed help the heroes?
1) This one is either A) a minor mistake on the author\developer's part, maybe out of habit from a previous edition OR B) is intended to reference this section of the Disbelieving Illusions sidebar:
2) The spell does say it feels right to the touch, but it does have the Visual trait, which says This (in one interpretation) would mean that closing your eyes makes you completely immune to the illusion, and can thus pass right through it.
Can anybody give me an idea of the actual height above sea level of the Gauntlight Tower? Also the crow flies range to Otari and Absolom?
I'm trying to estimate the possible range of the Gauntlight effect and whether it can reach down into the town, or even if it could reach Absolom.
I have estimated a height of about 150' which would give a horizon distance of about 15 miles. SInce Otari is protected by cliffs that are around 50-100 feet high, Otari itself would be protected from the rays, although the Graveyard wouldn't be as it is on top of the cliffs. Absolom, however would be well out of range as it is, by my estimate, between 70 and 90 miles away.
I think Belcorra made a major design mistake when she built it.
The Gauntlight is about a mile from Otari, and about three days' travel, so about 60 miles, from Absalom.
Maybe the Gauntlight, being magical, is not subject to the real world laws of physics. :-)
There are 24 hours in a day. It's 7:30 in the morning of your first day exploring the Gauntlight, and you are standing on the road with the gatehouse in front of you. What time will it be when you finish exploring the ground level of this place? Can you do it in one day? Two? More?
I think it might have been changed for the hardcover version... But that shouldn't matter. If you know there's a problem, just change it regardless of what is in print.
Mr. Beak's spells from the hardcover version of Abomination Vaults:
Occult Innate Spells DC 20; 3rd levitate, phantom pain;
Cantrips (1st) light, mage hand, prestidigitation
So yeah, go with phantom pain. :-)
There are 24 hours in a day. It's 7:30 in the morning of your first day exploring the Gauntlight, and you are standing on the road with the gatehouse in front of you. What time will it be when you finish exploring the ground level of this place? Can you do it in one day? Two? More?
My players typically spend 2-3 hours in the dungeon before going back to town to rest. Not counting travel time.
I think it took two days for them to explore the whole ground level.
So they're back in town in time for lunch? Cool. I like a leisurely dungeon crawl. :-)
Note: Gauntlight is a twenty minute walk from town (sidebar, Abomination Vaults hardcover, page 22).
I'm set to start the AP next week as a gm and something just crossed my mind. Is there anything stopping players from climbing up onto the roof of the keep and just shooting down at enemies in areas where the ceiling has collapsed? Unless I misunderstood, the ceiling is 10 feet high but areas where there's rubble the ceiling is open to the sky. I know my players always try to climb up on things to get advantages
I'm set to start the AP next week as a gm and something just crossed my mind. Is there anything stopping players from climbing up onto the roof of the keep and just shooting down at enemies in areas where the ceiling has collapsed? Unless I misunderstood, the ceiling is 10 feet high but areas where there's rubble the ceiling is open to the sky. I know my players always try to climb up on things to get advantages
Nothing preventing it, and I'd probably let them get away with it for one or two combats.
If your players are abusing it for the whole dungeon level, start making sections uneven ground and force them to make Acrobatics checks to balance. Or even just have part of the floor collapse.
I'm set to start the AP next week as a gm and something just crossed my mind. Is there anything stopping players from climbing up onto the roof of the keep and just shooting down at enemies in areas where the ceiling has collapsed? Unless I misunderstood, the ceiling is 10 feet high but areas where there's rubble the ceiling is open to the sky. I know my players always try to climb up on things to get advantagesNothing preventing it, and I'd probably let them get away with it for one or two combats.
If your players are abusing it for the whole dungeon level, start making sections uneven ground and force them to make Acrobatics checks to balance. Or even just have part of the floor collapse.
I did think about having the floor collapse, but I didn't want to lead into shenanigans where the party purposefully tries to create cave ins either. Uneven ground and balancing would make sense if they get near holes in the roof. Another thing I was thinking was if they abuse it too much I might bring out the river drake. Too much?
I did think about having the floor collapse, but I didn't want to lead into shenanigans where the party purposefully tries to create cave ins either. Uneven ground and balancing would make sense if they get near holes in the roof. Another thing I was thinking was if they abuse it too much I might bring out the river drake. Too much?I'm set to start the AP next week as a gm and something just crossed my mind. Is there anything stopping players from climbing up onto the roof of the keep and just shooting down at enemies in areas where the ceiling has collapsed? Unless I misunderstood, the ceiling is 10 feet high but areas where there's rubble the ceiling is open to the sky. I know my players always try to climb up on things to get advantagesNothing preventing it, and I'd probably let them get away with it for one or two combats.
If your players are abusing it for the whole dungeon level, start making sections uneven ground and force them to make Acrobatics checks to balance. Or even just have part of the floor collapse.
I think you're taking the wrong approach.
1. As a general rule of thumb, clever use of terrain and ranged weapons should be rewarded.
2. With 10 foot high ceilings and holes only in some places, enemies should be able to retreat out of sight.
3. Mitflits have ranged weapons too, and most other encounters only trigger if the PCs enter the room anyway.
I think having the drake or giant flies show up is a logical consequence given the environment, and if Balance rolls make it feel more immersive to you go for it. But don't try to hard to make the training wheels level harder than it needs to be.
2 sessions in and the players are most of the way to Level 2. They've missed a lot of secret doors and investigation spots. They glommed onto Boss Skrawng's map pretty hard and haven't even noticed the outbuildings and extra doors that he didn't draw. I'm afraid none of them are even going to roll high enough to find the secret door down to Level 2.
The Corpselights are a pretty nasty fight for first level characters! My party decided to half-ass running away when they realized that the things did a huge amount of damage, and it ended with a Corpselight using its cone attack while they were clumped up for a TPK. (I was also a little mean to them and started them at night, so it may have been a little more difficult than intended.) The party had broken through the stained glass window and were outside, so I had Wrin drag them back to town instead of making everyone roll new characters.
Having a blast so far!
The Corpselights were the most dangerous encounter on 'Level One'. Nearly had a TPK as well. 3/4 PCS were down. The last PC lucked out on their rolls, when on 1hp! Epic!
About to hit the library on L3... should be challenging with the paralysis saves for each hit by the ghouls....
Question on the DC scaling for the Awaken Portal ritual. Since it scales based on Spell Rank instead of the DC by level table, the DCs are going to quickly outstrip the player ability. Is this intended?
For example, my players are on Floor 6, which is a DC28 check. That's equivalent to a DC for an 11th level challenge, twice the character level of the party. Is the party just not supposed to be able to activate portals on lower floors?
Question on the DC scaling for the Awaken Portal ritual. Since it scales based on Spell Rank instead of the DC by level table, the DCs are going to quickly outstrip the player ability. Is this intended?
For example, my players are on Floor 6, which is a DC28 check. That's equivalent to a DC for an 11th level challenge, twice the character level of the party. Is the party just not supposed to be able to activate portals on lower floors?
Good question. I don't know what JJ would say, but I'd say just ignore the "spell levels" bit and use the regular DC by Level table, so the DC for the 6th level portal would be 22.
Hello everyone,
I'm a fairly new GM for PF2E, having run the Beginner's Box a couple of times, and now I'm GMing the Abomination Vaults Adventure Path with a table of 6 players. However, due to schedule issues, we effectively have 5 players with a rotating absence. I've received some advice on running the adventure using XP instead of Milestones, as it feels more natural for a Mega Dungeon.
Here are the characters in the party:
- Human cleric of Cayden Cailean
- Dwarf Fighter
- Human Wizard
- Goblin Alchemist
- Human Champion of Iomedae
- Halfling bard
The players have befriended the mitflits during the second encounter, and they are now working with them to clear the upper part of the dungeon from ghosts. Once they finish, they plan to proceed to clean the 2nd floor, which is inhabited by the "mushroom-eyed people."
We've had some memorable moments so far:
- The party decided to surround the keep and discovered the workshop, choosing to start from there.
- Everyone fell for the "Spookywisp" scam and delivered the "Shiny" to him.
- Mr. Beak caused a lot of damage, but nobody died, although everyone was in pretty bad shape.
- While the party was recovering from the Mr. Beak fight, the Fighter decided to "Go take a look" and got confused by the Flickerwisp, running amok with his own party still recovering.
- They discovered enough evidence of the river dragon and have been avoiding any bodies of water since then.
- Sneakily, they opened the secret door from B7 to B8, but everyone forgot they had a light source. The "mushroom-eyed people" noticed the light and attacked.
- The Champion reached 0 HP and fell, but the Cleric's AoE heal saved him. However, the Wizard's AoE spell put him down again with a "sorry." - Finally, they understood the danger of stacking wounded conditions.
- After that fight, they sealed the secret stairs at A12 with stones and rubble, with the help of the mitflits.
Since they befriended the mitflits, they are still level one at 810 XP. They have learned that haunts can be suppressed for a time, but extra effort is needed to destroy or put them to rest permanently. There is now a mini graveyard outside the keep with the tombs of 7 kobolds (6 from A7 and one from A3).
Next, they are about to go to A11 on the night where the Blood of Belcorra awaits them. If they manage to survive and be in good condition, they will then try their luck with the Vampiric Mist. However, even if they defeat both encounters, they will still be 30 XP away from reaching level 2.
I plan to start the Deadtide section once they defeat the Vampiric Mist for the first time or when they reach level 2, whichever comes first.
My main concern is that both the Blood of Belcorra and the Vampiric Mist reset once per night, and the way to destroy them is quite far away (D9). Once the players discover this, I'm afraid they might try to "compensate" for the lack of XP by using Gauntlight as a "Training room" and attempt to rerun both encounters every night until they find a way to destroy them. Initially, this might be dangerous, but as they level up, it will become easier.
I think this approach is clever and should be rewarded, maybe a couple of times, but it could become exploitable depending on how many days they take to reach D9. For instance, they could potentially gather 1,000 XP solely from these two rooms over 9 days at level 2, 13 days at level 3, and 17 days at level 4, double the time if haunts only award XP if they are destroyed (See bonus questions below).
My questions are as follows:
Am I wrong in thinking that this could become an issue? I have always used milestones, so encountering an XP farming issue is new to me.
If this is indeed an issue, how can I address it? Should I limit the number of times they can gain XP from these encounters? Should I deny XP from these two rooms once they reach level 2 or 3?
Bonus questions:
When do haunts usually award XP? Is it when they are disabled or when they are destroyed? If it's the former, could rooms with haunts also become "Training rooms"? Would this pose any issues in the future?
Thank you for your advice in advance and sorry for the long post!
- After that fight, they sealed the secret stairs at A12 with stones and rubble, with the help of the mitflits.
Since they befriended the mitflits, they are still level one at 810 XP.
Just a couple comments for now.
Sealing those stairs sealed their main access to the main part of the second level. To go through the workshop area they'll have to go down to level 3 and back up. This may or may not present problems. The only other way in is past the river dragon they're already avoiding. :-)
I'm not sure, but I seem to remember reading something somewhere about gaining XP for befriending certain critters when you don't just kill them.
Edit: Found it, I think. See page 507 of the Core Rulebook under XP Awards.
New comment: In general, I'd expect to only get experience for something like disabling a hazard once, just like I'd expect to only get experience for killing a monster once. That's sort of covered in the referenced page of the CRB, though it may not be very clear.
Just checked my spreadsheet. Total experience for everything on level 1 amounts to 1100 experience points, more than enough to get them to level 2 unless you're on the slow track. 340 XP of that involves encounters with mitflits.
Since they befriended the mitflits, they are still level one at 810 XP.
They should get XP for befriending creatures, unless you think they should only interact with everything in the dungeon by murdering it. The players will do things that grant them XP. Playing hack-and-slash is a perfectly valid way to play, but the dungeon has some dialogue opportunities built into it and I think it's more fun if the players are rewarded for interacting with denizens in friendly or novel ways rather than just killing them.
My main concern is that both the Blood of Belcorra and the Vampiric Mist reset once per night, and the way to destroy them is quite far away (D9). Once the players discover this, I'm afraid they might try to "compensate" for the lack of XP by using Gauntlight as a "Training room" and attempt to rerun both encounters every night until they find a way to destroy them.
I only give XP for Haunts and ghosts once they've been permanently dissipated to avoid this exact scenario. No XP for temporarily disabling them.
*Spoilers*
I am trying to reconcile the dates in the AV Adventure Path with the dates in Lost Omens - has then been addressed somewhere?
1. AV Timeline
4721 AR The current year. Gauntlight becomes infested with a band of mitflits, who are displaced by morlocks pushing upwards at the urging of their “ghost queen.” Gauntlight is ready for a test to demonstrate its power.
Also: Nearly 500 years has passed since Belcorra’s defeat after all, and in that time, she has only posed a menace to Otari through sinister rhymes.
And...4244: Roseguard defeat Belecorra
2. Lost Omens
4514 AR Adventurers defeat the mage Belcorra Haruvex, preventing a devastating siege by her army of aberrations.
The LO also does not mention Roseguard.
"Lost Omens"?
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"Lost Omens"?
The Settings Book.
Absalom - City of Lost Omens
