My character is a Thief Acrobat who have the Feat Contortionist. That feat grsnts the ability to Squeeze at 'full speed", when he reaches Master proficiency in Acrobatics.
Will this make him able to crawl as if he had Fleet + Skitter General feats, which grants crawling ability at 1/2 Speed? Albeit even faster, obviously (full speed)
Oh.. I guess that I have been mistaken since squeezing has the exploration trait.
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There's Quick Squeeze, for when you use the Squeeze action. Speed's measured per round so could be used in combat I'd say. The feat allows full speed at Legendary, though it doesn't seem to allow operating in actions rather than rounds (which is already a major bonus given it's an Exploration ability at its root).
You'd have to look at the wording of crawling too. If that's a distinct action (or requires using Stride), they won't work together anyway (though your GM could allow it).
I hadn't realized how tight a lockdown PF2 had on this type of movement. Maybe a fluke, or maybe because a party could really exploit this if built around such tactics (though it'd take some time for it to come to fruition).
There's Quick Squeeze, for when you use the Squeeze action. Speed's measured per round so could be used in combat I'd say. The feat allows full speed at Legendary, though it doesn't seem to allow operating in actions rather than rounds (which is already a major bonus given it's an Exploration ability at its root).
You'd have to look at the wording of crawling too. If that's a distinct action (or requires using Stride), they won't work together anyway (though your GM could allow it).
I hadn't realized how tight a lockdown PF2 had on this type of movement. Maybe a fluke, or maybe because a party could really exploit this if built around such tactics (though it'd take some time for it to come to fruition).
Castilliano, thank you for your reply. I'm still a little confused, but not due to your answer.
Basically, I'm new to PF2 and are in the process of relearning from DnD and PF1.
So some kind of moving has a Speed per round but isn't allowed in combat? And another quite similar form of movement does work? But because you know one form doesn't mean that you know the other??
Hmm. Not logical at all, but I guess that it is down to balancing the game.
I would allow a speed per round to work in combat/Encounter mode. Technically it's still an Exploration activity, unfortunately.
The trouble also is when one can move at full speed (w/ Quick Squeeze & Legendary Acrobatics). Can they now break their movement up into per action instead of per round? Is Squeeze just a normal form of movement now? (Heavily implied IMO)
In PF2, forms of movement can often be their own actions.
So if a feat allows you to use Stride, it doesn't necessarily let you use your other movement types with it. Look at Sudden Charge for example which has this wording attached:
"You can use Sudden Charge while Burrowing, Climbing, Flying, or Swimming instead of Striding if you have the corresponding movement type."
Without that wording, the feat would only work with Strides.
Squeeze is more difficult to adjudicate because it doesn't mention any other forms of movement, not even Stride. It's its own movement action, so couldn't be use with Swim for example (though a GM could allow that underwater since PF2 invites GM's to make sensible rulings like that without having their hands held).
Then Quick Squeeze cites move speed, which defaults to one's land movement, or Stride's value, though it's still not a Stride, it's a Squeeze. It never directly cites being a Stride variant. So it wouldn't work with Sudden Charge, Squeeze not being on the list of acceptable movement types that work with it.
Since we're working at Legendary levels at that point (and facing appropriate enemies), it wouldn't be too lenient to allow interaction (if the issue arises at all). When making such ruling I like to preface with the caveat that I may have to change my ruling if unforeseen shenanigans arise. Then the players know where I stand rather than treat it as hard law or dogma (which could be exploited).
Most abilities seem to have a similar notation like Sudden Charge's, but sometimes not, or sometimes movement types get excluded.
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Quick Squeeze basically changes the Squeeze action from "You squeeze through in 1 minute per 5 feet." to "You squeeze through in 1 round per 5 feet."
As for Squeezing at full Speed, it sounds like it changes the success and crit success to equal your Speed, but not the length it takes to do the action. So in one round you would squeeze your Speed rather than 5/10 feet.
Thank you all for your advice and input into this matter.
I still believe that it isn't logical that a Legendary Acrobat squeezer can't crawl well unless he spends two more General Feats for that. A discount should have been in place.
I will have to convince my GM to make a houserule for that I guess.
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Crawling and squeezing are completely different activities. You can easily crawl with a load of gear on your back, and you don't have to do things like suck in your gut or move limbs in strange ways. Military personnel can easily crawl with their heavy combat gear but if you ask them to squeeze into a tight space they would have trouble doing so. Contortionists can squeeze into tight spaces by bending and dislocating their limbs, but most of their movement would still be with their legs, so if their arms were weak they wouldn't be able to crawl effectively.
I'm not sure why you think being good at one means you should automatically be good at the other.
Crawling and squeezing are completely different activities. You can easily crawl with a load of gear on your back, and you don't have to do things like suck in your gut or move limbs in strange ways. Military personnel can easily crawl with their heavy combat gear but if you ask them to squeeze into a tight space they would have trouble doing so. Contortionists can squeeze into tight spaces by bending and dislocating their limbs, but most of their movement would still be with their legs, so if their arms were weak they wouldn't be able to crawl effectively.
I'm not sure why you think being good at one means you should automatically be good at the other.
In retrospect, I might want to agree with you on this one. But I did see these activities as quite similar until your example given above made me reconsider.
Squeezing, defined in this way, is a very limited type of activity. It hardly seems worth anyone's while to take a skill feat in it.
Squeezing, defined in this way, is a very limited type of activity. It hardly seems worth anyone's while to take a skill feat in it.
I get it for free when taking the contortionist acrobat archetype feat. ;-)
And besides it matches my character concept like a snug glove.
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Squeezing, defined in this way, is a very limited type of activity. It hardly seems worth anyone's while to take a skill feat in it.I get it for free when taking the contortionist acrobat archetype feat. ;-)
And besides it matches my character concept like a snug glove.
You could even say it squeezed its way into your concept. :P
You could even say it squeezed its way into your concept. :PSqueezing, defined in this way, is a very limited type of activity. It hardly seems worth anyone's while to take a skill feat in it.I get it for free when taking the contortionist acrobat archetype feat. ;-)
And besides it matches my character concept like a snug glove.
RFLMAO :-D