So bardic masterpieces doesn't actually have a bard level requirement?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Yes, I know they're only available to Bards/Skalds. But the prerequisites are always skill ranks and you can usually take them in place of feats instead of spells known. A Fighter 12 / Bard 1 multiclass can qualify for Music Beyond the Spheres which is essentially a 13th-level class feature for the bard, and the investment is minimal.

Music Beyond the Spheres:
You use your own life force to create a phantasmagorical impression of eldritch vibrations with your wild, flailing dance and erratic tones. The performance unravels and remakes the fabric of reality around you according to your designs.

Prerequisite: Perform (dance, sing, or string) 13 ranks.

Cost: Feat or 5th-level bard spell known.

Effect: When you enact this unnerving bardic performance, you take 2 points of Constitution drain or 2 points of Wisdom drain (your choice) to create an effect similar to limited wish, except that the effect is interpreted by an alien entity of the Dark Tapestry. If you have at least 17 ranks in Perform (dance, sing, or string), and you destroy a magic or technological item worth at least 25,000 gp as a material component and take 4 points of Constitution drain or Wisdom drain, you can instead produce the effects of a wish with this performance. The GM interprets how precisely the effects of this bardic performance are granted by the entity that you contact. This performance has audible and visual components.

Use: 1 round of bardic performance.

Action: 1 full round action.

Other good Masterpieces when dipping would be Pageant of the Peacock and Song of Sarkoris (with a Tuned Bowstring). It feels quite weird that it works like this and I can't think of any other ability that does. Thoughts?


Bardic Masterpieces wrote:

Talented bards can learn or create masterpieces, unusual applications of the bardic performance ability requiring special training.

GMs can use these masterpieces to inspire their own ideas for other masterpieces. Masterpieces should generally be no more powerful than a cleric or sorcerer/wizard spell available to a caster of the same level as the minimum level needed to select the masterpiece (a masterpiece requiring 7 ranks in Perform requires a 7th-level bard, and thus should not be more powerful than a 4th-level cleric or sorcerer/wizard spell).

Masterpiece descriptions adhere to the following guidelines:

This heavily implies that you need to be a bard of the appropriate level as well as have the ranks in the right skills to learn a bardic performance.

The other implication is that you don't learn to do a bardic performance, you create a bardic performance. Bardic performances are supernatural abilities, so you shouldn't be able to generate an effect that doesn't match up with your bardic spell casting. Or should that be matched to Bardic Performance?

Also Music Beyond the Spheres is surprisingly generous in the requirement is only a single round of bardic performance. Most performances require 3-5 rounds.

RAW it works. I wouldn't allow it at my table if someone wanted to dip a level of bard and then start casting wishes... or maybe I would allow it and just Mythos up the caster since you're getting wishes from the Dark Tapestry.


Meirril wrote:
Bardic Masterpieces wrote:

Talented bards can learn or create masterpieces, unusual applications of the bardic performance ability requiring special training.

GMs can use these masterpieces to inspire their own ideas for other masterpieces. Masterpieces should generally be no more powerful than a cleric or sorcerer/wizard spell available to a caster of the same level as the minimum level needed to select the masterpiece (a masterpiece requiring 7 ranks in Perform requires a 7th-level bard, and thus should not be more powerful than a 4th-level cleric or sorcerer/wizard spell).

Masterpiece descriptions adhere to the following guidelines:

This heavily implies that you need to be a bard of the appropriate level as well as have the ranks in the right skills to learn a bardic performance.

The other implication is that you don't learn to do a bardic performance, you create a bardic performance. Bardic performances are supernatural abilities, so you shouldn't be able to generate an effect that doesn't match up with your bardic spell casting. Or should that be matched to Bardic Performance?

Also Music Beyond the Spheres is surprisingly generous in the requirement is only a single round of bardic performance. Most performances require 3-5 rounds.

RAW it works. I wouldn't allow it at my table if someone wanted to dip a level of bard and then start casting wishes... or maybe I would allow it and just Mythos up the caster since you're getting wishes from the Dark Tapestry.

The wish only comes at level 17. So this is beyond the level of play of most people so frankly doesn't matter much. A 17th level character however they got there being able to cast wish is not that big of a deal.


Meirril wrote:
This heavily implies that you need to be a bard of the appropriate level as well as have the ranks in the right skills to learn a bardic performance.

Not really. It just puts the skill rank prerequisite in perspective to the power scaling of prepared full casters (for some reason). So a prerequisite of 13 skill ranks means that your 13th level character is allowed to emulate 7th spell level spells.

Meirril wrote:
The other implication is that you don't learn to do a bardic performance, you create a bardic performance. Bardic performances are supernatural abilities, so you shouldn't be able to generate an effect that doesn't match up with your bardic spell casting. Or should that be matched to Bardic Performance?

It seems to be completely separated from bardic spellcasting, both in flavour and mechanics. You use your bard level as your caster level for Masterpieces (when relevant), and being supernatural means they don't interact with SR or concentration checks.

Would you allow a Bard who entered a Prestige class at level 10 to take high-level Bardic Masterpieces? Same situation but the answer may be unintentionally punishing for the Bard.


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Did some more thinking regarding the bard=CL rule.

Bardic Masterpieces: Effect wrote:
This brief description summarizes what occurs when a bard performs the masterpiece. Unless otherwise stated, a masterpiece’s effects are supernatural. Unwilling creatures may attempt a Will save against the effect of a masterpiece; the save DC for masterpieces is equal to 10 + 1/2 the bard’s level + the bard’s Charisma bonus. Masterpieces that duplicate spells use the bard’s caster level for the spell’s caster level.
Magic: Caster Level wrote:

A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she’s using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

The level 13 Fighter/Bard example would have a Caster Level of 1 when calculating the effects of Limited Wish, which is quite a bit lower than the normal minimum CL of 13. So it is reasonable for some effects of Masterpieces to not function for multiclassed Bards if they duplicate spells. (Even if they're supernatural effects)

So if we disregard Masterpieces that are either reliant on Bard level or duplicates a spell for which the bard level makes no sense, here's the ones left that I find worth mentioning.

Multiclass-friendly Masterpieces:
4 ranks: Percussion or Wind
Battle Song of the People’s Revolt
Effect: Gain one bonus Teamwork feat that you can grant to allies within 30 ft.
Maintained (1/r), affected by Lingering Performance.

4 ranks: Act or Dance
Pageant of the Peacock
Effect: Can use Bluff for every intelligence skill when active.

6 ranks: Sing or Wind
Hymn of Restorative Harmonics
Effect: Allies within 30 ft can reroll against Exhausted, Fatigued, Nauseated, Sickened, Staggered, or Stunned. And gain the effect of Delay Poison.

7 ranks: Percussion or Wind
Symphony of Sylandurla’s Ascent
Effect: Allies within 30 ft gain immunity or a reroll each round (if they’re already affected) vs one condition. Either Charm effects, Dazed, Fear effect, Magical Sleep, Paralysis, Staggered, or Stunned. The condition is chosen at the start of the performance.
Maintained (1/r)

10 ranks: Oratory or Sing
Song of Sarkoris
Effect: Allies within 30 ft gain Attacks of Opportunity when hurt, these AoOs don't count against the maximum amount of AoOs per round, and you can make the AoOs against any enemy within reach (not just the one who triggered it).
Maintained (2/r)

15 ranks: String
Fugue de Rue D’Auseil
Effect: Create an area where Outsiders/Aberration/Undead can’t enter and those that were inside at the start gets relocated outside.
Maintained (1/minute)

***

Song of Sarkoris in particular feels especially strong as it triggers on basically every (successful) attack an enemy does and breaks the AoO maximum. There's probably some "infinite dmg" shenanigans to be made.

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