how do you deal with players


General Discussion


That have to have things thier way or no way at all? Just like in dnd 5e.


He wants to roll for stats. 4d6 reroll ones and drop the lowest.


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Politely inform them the rules that the game will be played by, at your table, and if that's an issue then simply inform them they'll need to seek an alternative GM.


C4M3R0N wrote:
Politely inform them the rules that the game will be played by, at your table, and if that's an issue then simply inform them they'll need to seek an alternative GM.

covid aside that is one one of the reasons we have not played. For q one shot to see if i am even worth attempting the dm thing.

Sovereign Court

Find a balance. Neither the "I am the GM, I am your god, I decide everything" or the "everyone has equal say" approach are reasonable.

As a GM, you do have more say. You're going to invest more time, and you have to run a game with the rules the table agrees on. If you won't enjoy running a campaign with those rules, then it's not going to happen.

As a player, you also have some say. If you really don't like the rules that are agreed on, you can walk away. One player walking away isn't the end of the game. But if nobody wants to play with the rules that the GM lays down, there's no game either.

So it's not equal but all sides do have a say.


I tried to explain that having stats that high would be kinda counterproductive since starfinder has a inbuilt way of improving your stats and having higher stats kinda hamstrings the pc early on.


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ghostunderasheet wrote:
He wants to roll for stats. 4d6 reroll ones and drop the lowest.

That is actually almost identical to the official alternate rules for Rolling Ability Scores.

However, that may not be the best choice for a new GM. That seems to be more for advanced players that are aware of the effects that the alternate rule will have - and will have plenty of experience with the normal rules to make a good comparison with to decide which they like better.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo)

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Alternatively, if this is just a one-shot adventure and everyone is trying to see how they like it, you could always have the players use one of the pregenerated characters, rather than make their own? There's one for each of the classes, and each class is available at levels one, four, and eight. They're generally built as good intro characters, with helpful character ability write-ups. They're not hyper-optimized PCs, but definitely up to the challenge (and if any player just wants to see big damage numbers, Obozaya the soldier or Iseph the operative should suffice!)

This sidesteps everything about making your own characters - at least until you decide if you want to commit to your own campaign or not.

Shadow Lodge

Let them know if they don't already, that you're a new gm. The rules (classes, skills, spells, hazards, etc) in the core rulebook you're following are written with the assumption that stats are generated by point buy. You're not experienced enough with GMing to adjust creatures/encounters/other rules to match a different mode of stat generation so you're using the default rules.

If they still have a problem with that, tell them they can GM and use whatever rules they want.


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Take the cover off your core rulebook so you're only doing non lethal damage

Sovereign Court

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Take the cover off your core rulebook so you're only doing non lethal damage

So that's what spinegate was all about..


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Establish your boundaries early, and stick to them.

Like, a year ago I had the chance to introduce some players who were brand new to RPGs to Starfinder. Immediately off the bat, I had one of the players who seemed to chafe at every mechanical rule in the game. I had initially thought Starfinder was great for balance, but any time that balance would start to feel challenging for him, he'd grow sullen and complain.

That quickly started to spiral off into him making some very uncomfortable transphobic comments about me, getting quite verbally aggressive and argumentative. Before we'd even got through book 2 of Aeon Throne, I was already dreading GMing for him because every choice I'd make would end in him complaining and arguing.

After a few sessions, the party had really descended into the typical murder-hobo stereotype. Partly this was due to that I was letting them get away with anything, simply to avoid an argument. One player wound up quickly transitioning his Vesk from a well-rounded and capable engineer into a literal cannibal, wearing a necklace of skulls and so on. I had to work overtime to fit airvents into every map because our Operative player was unhappy without having them constantly available to sneak through. It was... not fun.

Eventually I told the problem player that his frequent aggressive outbursts at me were making me uncomfortable and asked him to sit out of that week's game. He blew up my phone with messages, accusing me of all kind of things (making him 'choose between the game and his friends'), I felt so uncomfortable that I dropped GMing for them entirely. And that's not including the before-mentioned transphobic comments which were just... urgh.

The real crux of my problem in handling it, if I'm honest with myself, was that I wasn't clear enough with the group and the player on what was and wasn't acceptable at the table. I let one player browbeat me into a bad position which ultimately harmed the whole group dynamic itself. The end result of that is that the party eventually wound up GMing for one another instead - a result I'm sure works better for them. Last I heard, they were making podcasts but I have them blocked for my own mental wellbeing. Always learn something from your negative experiences, if you can.


Players do not own you. They are free to not play in your game, which is supposed to be a fun thing to do with friends. When it stops being fun, or they stop being friendly, it's time to take a step back.

Rolling for stats just doesn't work well in Starfinder. It's an established option, but it leads to wild swings in player effectiveness, which the Starfinder devs have gone out of their way to reduce from Pathfinder 1E times.

Tell them that they get +2 to four stats every five levels and that you can buy up to three affordable (for their levels) personal upgrades of +2, +4, and +6. Starfinder allows a real sense of progression into more powerful characters over time without loads of magic items. If this isn't generous enough, and they feel like they need to start with 14+ in everything... well, there's a lot of gamer fish in the gamer sea.


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ghostunderasheet wrote:
That have to have things thier way or no way at all? Just like in dnd 5e.

Say "Okay, bye".

Divas that refuse to compromise will continuously cause problems. This might seem like a small issue, but if they're going to say they refuse to play because you wont capitulate the better thing to do is to tell them no.

If the player changes the mind about making demands, welcome them back.

The whole point here is to remind the player that this is a communal game, not their game specifically.

Now, if the whole group wanted to roll stats that would be a different thing. As a GM if all of the players expressed a desire to roll stats I would consider it, with a provision that if I felt it was causing problems I would request that ability scores be altered to match the normal method of stat generation.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I haven't personally had this problem, but my recommendation was to let them roll but everyone else can opt to use whatever they roll if they want to.

This means the other players who don't want the risk will always have their point buy to use, but if the snowflake player gets really high rolls they won't dominate since the others can just go "oh, yes, me too".


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Honestly, if you really wanted to let players roll, the most fair and equitable way, in my opinion, is to let everyone roll.

Then allows all the players to choose from any rolled array to use for their character.

In this way, no one character can have unbalanced stats. No one "gets lucky" because everyone can have the same stats.

Having disparate stats between players that allows one character to feel significantly more powerful than another can be infuriating, or at least it is for me. But if everyone just gets 18 in all their stats, that just means the GM can ratchet up the difficulty because everyone was given the same bonus.

The problem arises from disparity between player characters. A GM can always adjust the NPCs to match the boost players got.

Acquisitives

In one of our games (RoW AP with 3 players only) the DM let us all roll (4d6 drop lowest) and together we decided which of the three "result sets" we all use.

This everyone has the same base stats, just in other abilities. We ended up with something compared to a 27 points build (PF1):D

But at the topic on "how to deal with demanding players?" - simply don't.
Tell them this is your game and you are the DM, you set up the rules. They can make suggestions (outside of the game night), but at the end it's your call and they have to respect this and trust you that you decided this way not to harm them, but in best interest of the game.
If they can't do this (after you explained it to them), then let them go!

And don't forget you are a "player" too, you are not the players minion/slave/whatever, you spent hours preparing the adventure, you invested much more then the players, so it's only fair that they respect you and allow you to also have some fun at the table. ;)


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As others have said, you are the GM and you set the parameters.

I absolutely forbid rules debate at the table. I make my best judgement call and we move forward. If I was wrong and it wound hurting the group I as the GM have unlimited ways in which to rectify the situation all while staying within the story.

A few times over the years I have players that turned into Estes rockets.

So I launched them.

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