I was thinking more about the "protect allies" Part. The redemption part could be situational, as you already pointed out.In PFS, you can play a LN Cleric of Zon-Kuthon. So, I think I'll handle it the same way: he won't clearly be a full ally as my Sorcerer's loyalty goes to Sarenrae before going to the Pathfinder Society. In some circumstances, like fighting a hidden cult of Rovagug, he may be a full ally. But for most missions, he'll just be tolerated.
In my opinion, healing someone who opposes your faith is borderline anathema. I would clearly understand if a cleric loses his powers because of such act (or repeated acts).In that case is the situation which could be definitely off.
If I were a cleric of Sarenrae, I definitely wouldn't team up with a follower of Zon-Kuthon. And if i'd find out that one of my team mates worship the god of Pain and self mutilation, I'd probably leave the party too ( or him, or me ).
But you would find it ok to team up with a follower of the Laws of Mortality? I mean, ultimately, they are opposed to all faiths. And considering what they do in Rahadoum, it's hard to not see them as enemies. Destroying temples, relics, exiling people... They are not evil per se, so my Sorcerer will certainly treat them with more respect than the worshipper of an evil deity. But not to the point of healing them.
I share your point.
What I just wanted to say is that it's unlikely that you will find yourself in a situation ( It's not which would be the worst among them, since you probabluy won't be teaming up with neither of them ).
But, if you were in a situation with a character ( not necessarily a team mate of yours ), follower of the laws of mortality, dying under your eyes... I mean, since you are good you'd probably consider to save his life ( but I guess that this would end up to be also possible with a follower of Zun-Kuthon ).
Being given the possibility to save a life ( regardless the fact the one who's dying could redeem himself or not ), wouldn't you at least consider that possibility?
Yes, clearly.
If I ever find myself teaming up with a follower of the Laws of Mortality (which is really possible in PFS), I'll certainly ask him if he wants me to save his life if he's on the verge of dying. And I'll follow his answer.If I don't have time to ask the question, I'll certainly consider the whole situation. If he is an "innocent" or acting for good, then I'll save his life.
And if I save his life, I'll then acively seek for his redemption. Using Sarenrae's powers to help someone who's opposed to her faith will never be a habit for my Sorcerer, but more of an extreme case. Seeking for his redemption would be the way to honor her the proper way considering my acts were a bit transgressive.
|
I laugh anytime a debate about fantasy religions gets dogmatic.
The "real" religions of today's world have all sorts of little anathemas that supposedly do horrible things to your spiritual self up to and including eternal damnation.
Whereas in Pathfinder, you just get annoyed that you can't use your feat for 24 hours.
|
I knowingly raise this thread back to life.
For a PFS character, can I benefit from Mortal healing if I am an Oracle of Life? If I am a Sorcerer with a Divine bloodline? If I have the Blessed One archetype?
The specific restriction on Mortal Healing is 'a creature that hasn’t regained Hit Points from divine magic in the past 24 hours' so any healing from a divine spell would negate it for 24 hours, even if it is from an oracle, a divine sorcerer, or a 'Blessed One'.
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 162Archetype, Dedication
Archetype Blessed One
You are touched by a deity and gifted with the ability to alleviate the suffering of others. You gain the lay on hands devotion spell. It costs 1 Focus Point to cast a focus spell. This feat grants a focus pool of 1 Focus Point that you can recover using the Refocus activity. You can Refocus by meditating, whether you reflect on the deity granting the blessing or not, allowing your blessing to refill your focus pool. Your devotion spells from the blessed one archetype are divine spells.
Special You can't select another dedication feat until you have gained two other feats from the blessed one archetype.
Beyond this 'narrow' rule, being one of these classes (or archetype) is a major issue for anyone following the Laws Of Mortality as pretty much every ability falls under the 'solicit or receive divine or religious aid' anathema: Even if you don't actually worship the source of your power, you are still demonstrating that power to the world and therefore encouraging their worship...
I was thinking more about the "protect allies" Part. The redemption part could be situational, as you already pointed out.In PFS, you can play a LN Cleric of Zon-Kuthon. So, I think I'll handle it the same way: he won't clearly be a full ally as my Sorcerer's loyalty goes to Sarenrae before going to the Pathfinder Society. In some circumstances, like fighting a hidden cult of Rovagug, he may be a full ally. But for most missions, he'll just be tolerated.
In my opinion, healing someone who opposes your faith is borderline anathema. I would clearly understand if a cleric loses his powers because of such act (or repeated acts).
Note this thread talked about specifics for within PFS play. I remember reading that all PFS scenario goals are to be considered to be unable to be a violation of Anathema (Pharasmite priests are allowed to assume/know that their expedition into a tomb is not considered grave robbing as it has been properly vetted) Ideally, also if destroying a mirror that was going to cause the destruction of all of Golarion and wipe out a millenium or more of time, a Shelynite could presumably still participate because of some reason. (perhaps the shards will be collected and made into a glass star to remember those lost to its dark attempt at destroying all (or quite a bit).
Anathema it also said was clear does not extend to other party members, and the players are not required to try to apply that restriction to other characters.
I believe the same document also stated that on PFS missions you are to consider your fellow pathfinder Allies, so even if you would otherwise randomly meeting on the street, you need to consider/treat them as allies. So even if you don't care for people who practice the tenants of the Laws of Mortality due to the destruction they have caused to many, for the context of the mission, they are an ally that you need to be committed to insuring you all succeed and come back alive. (within your power) That applies even if you discover they are a Zon-Kuthite. They are your ally, until your mission concludes, and you let them part ways, and you perhaps request your venture captain to never put you on a mission with them again.
Again, I'd not hold aide they didn't accept from an anathema standpoint/falling from grace position. In a campaign with a player who seemed to invite the situation a lot, I might talk to the player and suggest having some sort of inner struggle and potential story arc for them to weave into the storyline. If the player took godless healing but was using it until they were unable to be healed again for a while, and needed healing so they asked for divine healing, I'd feel like the player needed to re-evaluate things as it doesn't seem like it is supposed to be a purely mechanical benefit with no role-play ramifications. But PFS (which is only one scenario at a time) I don't think getting caught in the effect of a divine spell should be allowed to devolve into interlayer confict and disrupt the group mission or trigger a fall arc for a player. (although the player requesting it not be done again is certainly viable behavior)
If you are a PFS character who follows the Laws of Mortality, you chose to join the PFS because you felt it benefited Mortality. You knew when you did it that there are those that aren't pure in the society, and felt there was value there anyway. [perhaps to prove your own worth to the world by standing beside those who rely on divinity and proving you are just as good relying on your mortality instead] It is on you to insure your character can work within the Pathfinder Society. You can't 'join' and then complain about everyone and refuse to cooperate. (Cooperate was a prerequisite to joining the society) Feel free to willingly choose to not be a viable target for divine spells, but don't stop the divine caster from doing their part for the mission.
I knowingly raise this thread back to life.
For a PFS character, can I benefit from Mortal healing if I am an Oracle of Life? If I am a Sorcerer with a Divine bloodline? If I have the Blessed One archetype?
The specific restriction on Mortal Healing is 'a creature that hasn’t regained Hit Points from divine magic in the past 24 hours' so any healing from a divine spell would negate it for 24 hours, even if it is from an oracle, a divine sorcerer, or a 'Blessed One'.
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 162Archetype, Dedication
Archetype Blessed One
You are touched by a deity and gifted with the ability to alleviate the suffering of others. You gain the lay on hands devotion spell. It costs 1 Focus Point to cast a focus spell. This feat grants a focus pool of 1 Focus Point that you can recover using the Refocus activity. You can Refocus by meditating, whether you reflect on the deity granting the blessing or not, allowing your blessing to refill your focus pool. Your devotion spells from the blessed one archetype are divine spells.Special You can't select another dedication feat until you have gained two other feats from the blessed one archetype.
Beyond this 'narrow' rule, being one of these classes (or archetype) is a major issue for anyone following the Laws Of Mortality as pretty much every ability falls under the 'solicit or receive divine or religious aid' anathema: Even if you don't actually worship the source of your power, you are still demonstrating that power to the world and therefore encouraging their worship...
I believe that would be true. Mortal healing says they can't have gotten divine healing before in the past 24 hours. At first I was going to suggest that while it would have impacted the feat, that it might not impact triggering their Anathema, but looking again, yes, I'd have to imagine that invoking a divine spell would likely have to fall into receiving divine aid. The wording makes it clear they dislike any divine sourced magic because it is tainted by the essence of the Gods. Some or many of them even distrust Primal magic, because of its somewhat similarities to Divine as it often involves faith within its power, and the fact that some Primal practitioners actually choose to voluntarily honor deities. Meaning they get judged as traitors, using a power that shouldn't be associated with the gods and attributing it to the gods. (and perhaps making mortals more wary of using the primal powers that mortals should be able to use)
In then end, I think it would be a poor combination, since using your class powers would violate your faith's anathema. And the occasional transgression seem like something you can deal with, but use of daily class abilities seems like it wouldn't bode well for your faith.
Note:
Also relevant, I seem to recall reading that you determine if you are a willing target of spells, even if you your character is unconscious. So if you are unconscious and the Nearby Sarenite Priestess casts a three action heal, you as the player get to decide if you get healed or not, since it targets willing creatures. That means the player can say yes, they got healed. And I as GM would not make it a falling situation for the character, I'm willing to separate the Player from the Character. However, if they had the godless healing feat, they would lose its effect for 24 hours.
I didn't notice at first that stabilize doesn't require being willing. Maybe your Seranite priest can pretend to be a fire druid and pass it off as a primal Stabilize spell (other than it canceling their mortal healing ability).
The rules are pretty straight forward, but it does feel a little odd that it's harder for a LoM follower to work with a godless sorcerer whose powers have nothing to do with a deity than say, a druid, who technically doesn't need a deity but whose station definitely borders on clerical in a lot of ways.