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I'm playing a Ghost Rider Cavalier, so my mount acts as a Spiritualist's Phantom. And we've run into question regarding whether my mount needs to breath (for purposes of going underwater or Mass Suffocation).
Opinions are equally split between "It's a Phantom, just physically manifested ectoplasm, so obviously no." and "It's listed as an Outsider not Undead, so obviously yes." And I mean split equally when I asked my local PFS for a rules call and got a 50/50 of these responses.
Can I get an official ruling?
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In the Phantom's description, they make it clear that it is no longer alive. Therefore I don't see why it would need to breathe or eat.
By the rules it's an outsider. Outsiders need to breathe by default. When incorporeal it doesn't interact with the physical world though. I imagine ectoplasmic form is the one you're more concerned with, and that does interact with the physical world.
Since phantoms are obviously intended to draw on ghost imagery you could reasonably argue they're not supposed to need to breathe, but that's not in the rules.
In the Phantom's description, they make it clear that it is no longer alive. Therefore I don't see why it would need to breathe or eat.
could you quote the part your talking about because i can't find it.
edit: the part about it not being alive.
smurf
In the description for spiritualist
When a creature dies, its spirit flees its body and begins the next stage of its existence. Debilitating emotional attachments during life and other psychic corruptions cause some spirits to drift into the Ethereal Plane and descend toward the Negative Energy Plane. Some of these spirits are able to escape the pull of undeath and make their way back to the Material Plane, seeking refuge in a psychically attuned mind.
It doesn't match the fluff, but from the rules standpoint it's an outsider and outsiders need to breathe.
That said, I think the reason it's an outsider is because they didn't want it to have the immunity and resistances of Undead. And also because Undead are evil. And because it would make healing it harder.
It's mostly from the phantom just being badly hidden plagiarism of the eidolon. So lazy.
It's mostly from the phantom just being badly hidden plagiarism of the eidolon. So lazy.
And the eidolon is a badly hidden plagiarism of the animal companion.
And the animal companion is a badly hidden plagiarism of a familiar.
And the familiar is a badly hidden plagiarism of the phantom...
The cycle is unbroken.
It's not remotely on the same level. The eidolon borrows some commonalities from both the animal companion and the familiar, like share spells and scaling stat bonuses. But the Phantom is literally huge chunks of copy/paste of the eidolon with a find-and-replace of "eidolon" to "phantom".
And this is why the phantom is an "outsider", because the eidolon was an outsider.
Just a quick reminder that the Ghost Rider phantom has the animal (phantom) type and not the usual outsider type.
Just a quick reminder that the Ghost Rider phantom has the animal (phantom) type and not the usual outsider type.
The real issue is what defines the (Phantom) subtype. Acts in a manner similar to an undead without undead traits? Or is it just a placeholder tag meant to be filled out at a later time?
This subtype is applied to the lost souls known as phantoms, outsiders desperately attempting to avoid the fate of undeath.
They are not listed as anything but a form of outsider nearly unrelated to undeath. They are an incarnation of an individual (or in the case of the Ghost Rider archetype, animal) pulled directly from the ethereal plane to the material plane, imposing any penalties normally associated with being a summoned intra-planar being.
The other thing that doesn't make the most sense with that then becomes: Is there anything considered "air" or atmosphere in the ethereal plane?
On the other hand, the need to breathe could be tied to the phantoms refusal to become undead, while still holding onto the notion of it being 'alive'. A self imposed placebo effect if you will.