Say I’m a Winter Witch 10/Winter Witch 10. The prestige class advances all the class features of the Witch class, including archetypes, and the archetype doesn’t trade the capstone away. So I still get the Witch capstone at 20th level. Can I trade it away?
Thinking of doing so for With This Sword, to enhance a Crystal Tiara (Scaling Magic Item) with ice/snow/cold themed spells to cast, to really sink in the “Master of Ice and Snow” feeling.
Winter Witch PRC says you can add its levels to your witch levels for the purposes of hexes. Period. It also offers 9 spell level advancements.
The suggested character isn't a 20th level anything. It is a 10/10. You get no capstone.
At 20th level, I literally don't see why not... so long as it's not the same GM that killed your parents. Lol.
Witch's Dance says that you replace your last hex with it as a Capstone for a class that normally doesn't get a Capstone.
With This Blade says players of any class can take it, and it doesn't say that it replaces an existing Capstone... therefore the fact that a Witch doesn't normally get one doesn't actually seem to matter.
You're a 20th level full caster... the answer to most things for you in Pathfinder is going to be yes.
Edit: @ Meirril, Are you sure that it doesn't include other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities)?
Winter Witchcraft
Levels of the winter witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining when she learns new hexes, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch’s familiar, and the level at which she can select major hexes or grand hexes.
Winter Witchcraft wrote: Levels of the winter witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining when a witch learns new hexes, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch’s familiar, and the level at which she can select major hexes or grand hexes. And all a witch gets at level 20 is a hex, which like the level 18 one is allowed to be a grand hex. And a (winter witch)2 has a witch level of 20 for that hexes effects. So...I guess so?
Meirril wrote: Winter Witch PRC says you can add its levels to your witch levels for the purposes of hexes. Period. It also offers 9 spell level advancements.
The suggested character isn't a 20th level anything. It is a 10/10. You get no capstone.
You do get the capstone, which is the hex you gain at 20th level.
As I read it, if you have an archetype that replace an hex gain with something that isn't an hex, you then get nothing.
But at first glance, I don't see any archetype compatible with the Winter witch that also trade the 20th level hex
Edit: oups, didn't see the bit about "With this sword". I don't know how alternate capstone works.
I'm with Meirril - you haven't taken 20 levels in a single class... No capstone for you.
However, the alternative capstones and witches is pretty confused in general. Is the level 20 hex your "capstone" as a witch? You got grand hex at 18th, and you've been getting hex since 1st. A wizards 20th level bonus feat is not his capstone. (In corner cases, nor are certain domain's 20th level ability bumps capstones - eg. Water get immunity to cold at 20th). Not to mention the potential weirdness of Robes of Arcane Heritage for sorcerers...
Reksew_Trebla wrote: Meirril wrote: Winter Witch PRC says you can add its levels to your witch levels for the purposes of hexes. Period. It also offers 9 spell level advancements.
The suggested character isn't a 20th level anything. It is a 10/10. You get no capstone.
You do get the capstone, which is the hex you gain at 20th level. Alternative Capstone Class Feature wrote: When a character reaches the 20th level of a class, she gains a powerful class feature or ability, sometimes referred to as a capstone. This is the very first sentence of the section that talks about Alternative Capstone Class Feature. You need 20 levels of the same class to get these options. Not 20 levels of some features of a class. A character with a PRC doesn't get 20 levels worth of a class. Even the Evangelist PRC would be one level short.
Meirril wrote: Reksew_Trebla wrote: Meirril wrote: Winter Witch PRC says you can add its levels to your witch levels for the purposes of hexes. Period. It also offers 9 spell level advancements.
The suggested character isn't a 20th level anything. It is a 10/10. You get no capstone.
You do get the capstone, which is the hex you gain at 20th level. Alternative Capstone Class Feature wrote: When a character reaches the 20th level of a class, she gains a powerful class feature or ability, sometimes referred to as a capstone. This is the very first sentence of the section that talks about Alternative Capstone Class Feature. You need 20 levels of the same class to get these options. Not 20 levels of some features of a class. A character with a PRC doesn't get 20 levels worth of a class. Even the Evangelist PRC would be one level short. The hex at 20 is the capstone. As long as you get that, you have gotten the capstone. Furthermore, Winter Witch (prestige) advances all your class features from the Witch class.
Also, are you really trying to argue that a Sorcerer 10/Dragon Disciple 10 doesn’t get the 20th level bloodline power? Because if they do, they have gotten their capstone. If they don’t, then that means the text in the Dragon Disciple class about stacking levels for gaining bloodline powers is false, and they don’t stack.
Which one of those sounds more legitimate? Hint: It’s not what you are saying.
Reksew_Trebla wrote: Meirril wrote: Reksew_Trebla wrote: Meirril wrote: Winter Witch PRC says you can add its levels to your witch levels for the purposes of hexes. Period. It also offers 9 spell level advancements.
The suggested character isn't a 20th level anything. It is a 10/10. You get no capstone.
You do get the capstone, which is the hex you gain at 20th level. Alternative Capstone Class Feature wrote: When a character reaches the 20th level of a class, she gains a powerful class feature or ability, sometimes referred to as a capstone. This is the very first sentence of the section that talks about Alternative Capstone Class Feature. You need 20 levels of the same class to get these options. Not 20 levels of some features of a class. A character with a PRC doesn't get 20 levels worth of a class. Even the Evangelist PRC would be one level short. The hex at 20 is the capstone. As long as you get that, you have gotten the capstone. Furthermore, Winter Witch (prestige) advances all your class features from the Witch class.
Also, are you really trying to argue that a Sorcerer 10/Dragon Disciple 10 doesn’t get the 20th level bloodline power? Because if they do, they have gotten their capstone. If they don’t, then that means the text in the Dragon Disciple class about stacking levels for gaining bloodline powers is false, and they don’t stack.
Which one of those sounds more legitimate? Hint: It’s not what you are saying. The 10/10 Winter Witch gains a Hex at 20th level, which may be a Grand Hex. It can't be the hex listed under Alternative Capstone because the 10/10 doesn't qualify for a capstone ability.
Similarly, the 10/10 Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple would get the 20th level Bloodline power: Power of Wyrms. The Dragon Disciple doesn't get an option to take the alternative capstone ability: Unique Bloodline because they don't have 20 levels in a class so they don't qualify for capstone abilities.
Capstone and Alternative Capstone abilities were added after the classes talked about were created. Trying to argue that you have the ability that gets traded away so you qualify to trade away the "capstone" to get an alternative capstone doesn't make sense because you don't qualify for the capstone in the first place.
Or are you going to say that anyone that takes 5 levels of Wizard and the 5th level happens to be at 20th level qualifies them to take an alternative capstone ability because the Wizard Capstone is a bonus feat which can be traded for a Wizard Discovery? Or a 2nd level fighter because they get a bonus feat too? Any class that happens to grant a bonus feat at 20th level? How trivial do you want to make this?
Meirril, WTF are you trying to say with all of those comparisons?
Just because the character is level 20, but only has 2 levels of Fighter or 5 levels of Wizard... what? Fighters and Wizards in a prestige class that advanced their levels would count as if their levels have advanced, and qualify for a Capstone if their levels were advanced to 20.
Understand that the Winter Witch prestige class has a built in mechanism that continues the advancement of your Winter Witch archetype... this mechanism is activated at the first level of the prestige class...
Therefore, a Winter Witch-10/Winter Witch-10 IS, 100%, a 20th level Winter Witch for all Witch class abilities (including archetype abilities).
It's almost like you didn't read the SEVERAL posts quoting what the Winter Witchcraft ability in the Winter Witch prestige class actually does.
VoodistMonk wrote:
Understand that the Winter Witch prestige class has a built in mechanism that continues the advancement of your Winter Witch archetype... this mechanism is activated at the first level of the prestige class...
Therefore, a Winter Witch-10/Winter Witch-10 IS, 100%, a 20th level Winter Witch for all Witch class abilities (including archetype abilities).
It's almost like you didn't read the SEVERAL posts quoting what the Winter Witchcraft ability in the Winter Witch prestige class actually does.
Winter Witchcraft wrote: Levels of the winter witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining when a witch learns new hexes, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch’s familiar, and the level at which she can select major hexes or grand hexes. Who exactly hasn't read? All I see here is that you stack witch levels and Winter Witch levels for determining your ability with hexes. It even specifically calls out that you can gain major and grand hexes. But it says nothing about stacking winter witch and witch for class abilities other than hexes, and it says nothing about capstone abilities.
And the only reference there is to Witch Capstone abilities are from the alternate capstone abilities that say a Witch can select the alternate capstone hex in place of their level 20 hex. Those same rules say you need 20 levels in A class. As in a level 20 Witch. Not the ability to select a Hex and have a total of 20 levels.
Capstones are rewards for not taking PRCs or dipping into other classes. Stop trying to ignore the first sentence in the Alternate Capstone options!
Meirril wrote: Winter Witchcraft wrote: Levels of the winter witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining when a witch learns new hexes, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch’s familiar, and the level at which she can select major hexes or grand hexes. Who exactly hasn't read? All I see here is that you stack witch levels and Winter Witch levels for determining your ability with hexes. It even specifically calls out that you can gain major and grand hexes. But it says nothing about stacking winter witch and witch for class abilities other than hexes, and it says nothing about capstone abilities. Is the Winter Witchcraft quote you included in you post inaccurate, becuase if not that then it absolutely does (see the bit I bolded above). But that is a bit of a red herring, because even if it did not say that, the witches capstone is a grand hex, which it explicitly provides. So they absolutely have the capstone that they need to swap out.
As you mention, the first sentance in Alternate Capstones is a bigger impediment. It is not entirely clear to me which takes presedence, so I could be persuaded either way, but currently I am leaning toward not allowing it.
_
glass.
It's a 20th level full caster... what are you possibly doing to improve the overall story by DENYING the witch her precious crystal tiara?
It's a minor artifact.
Half the party has those stuffed in their gear, some probably forgotten about even by the people who own them.
It's not going to break the game just to give the Winter Witch/Winter Witch her ice crown instead of a Grand Hex.
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