I'm looking through cantrips. All of the lists have Sigil. I can't think of anything that this is used for. Not even role-playing reasons.
So someone help me out. What does it actually do?
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Drawing on your friends' faces after they fall asleep.
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Graffiti.
Pranking your friends.
Pranking your enemies.
Marking the wall in a maze/difficult to navigate area so you know where you've been.
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Marking the wall in a maze/difficult to navigate area so you know where you've been.
Now that one might actually be useful. Until the GM goes all Labyrinth on us...
I'm looking through cantrips. All of the lists have Sigil. I can't think of anything that this is used for. Not even role-playing reasons.
So someone help me out. What does it actually do?
Usually to mark someone who can change his appearance, or mark something that you own so when you find it you can reveal it to prove it's yours...
In PF1 I used it as a tool for noble to sign their official documents with a rule stating that if you don't have the exact formula for the spell that cast a specific sigil you can't reproduce the sigil of another...
I don't know why this spell has been nerfed but well... it has and I will have to find something new for my noble to sign their documents...
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I don't know why this spell has been nerfed
The random nerfs to mechanically weak, flavor-oriented spells is one of the weirdest overall design choices for PF2 imo.
It still states that you place your unique magical sigil on the document. And it only fades if you place it on a creature - placing it on an object is still permanent.
Ooooh thank you very much, I completely miss this part !!!
Arcane Mark (the name of the Sigil spell in 1e) has a fading time of 1 month on living things, this one is better at high level in fact...
Also I've read it totally wrong I was under the assumption that you can have only one active at a time...
So this, each Sigil is unique and can prove your identity and your property and you can sign with them (like the family Sigil in Japan) a must have for noble...
Hmm.... it is a bit harder to use for RP purposes, but it can still be used. Before, arcane mark explicitly had rules so that you can make an invisible mark glow while using a simple detect magic.
However, both versions are subject to see invisibility. Which means that you can set up systems for inspection. This could be used as a method where a wizard marks an introduction letter or entry pass in order to show that it is authentic. Since the marks can be made invisible, this can be a hidden form of identification that would be missed people doing simple forgery.
Of course... now, EVERYBODY gets a version of this spell. Before, it was mostly just arcane classes (thus the name), which would restrict it to the wizard community in most places. But with every cleric, bard, and druid using it, I feel like this would be a very commonly known trick used by casters. So that might be known to skilled forgers...
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Each Sigil is unique, so forgers would be hard pressed since they have to duplicate using other methods, methods that create a sigil that can be scrubbed off in 5 minutes (so no tattoos nor staining) and which detects as magic, and of the proper level for that caster.
Invisible seems hard enough, yet even if visible, the sigil doesn't necessarily look like something that ink can copy. You could have a hyper-complex Escher/Dali blend with multiple interwoven colors and such. Then again, it also doesn't say you choose your sigil! They might be tied to your True Self, Words of Power, soul, or whatnot.
Dunno.
Plus one could get really tricky, choosing specific angles which to place them at, perhaps having a partner with overlapping sigils for a truly complex pattern, or using encryption methods involving position, amount, and so forth. Even with one symbol, there's a lot that can be done. Could always make a habit of casting it twice so that the two make a separate pattern.
But yeah, it's not a great spell now that it can be easily removed, and because elite robbers would likely know this and to look for invisible ones.
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When you are about to embark on a quest with a bunch of Dwarves you can use this to mark the door of a Halfling's house so they know where to meet you.
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Each Sigil is unique, so forgers would be hard pressed since they have to duplicate using other methods, methods that create a sigil that can be scrubbed off in 5 minutes (so no tattoos nor staining) and which detects as magic, and of the proper level for that caster.
Invisible seems hard enough, yet even if visible, the sigil doesn't necessarily look like something that ink can copy. You could have a hyper-complex Escher/Dali blend with multiple interwoven colors and such. Then again, it also doesn't say you choose your sigil! They might be tied to your True Self, Words of Power, soul, or whatnot.
Dunno.
Hmmm.... I suppose that is a better angle. I was under the assumption that it was just a personally chosen heraldry thing, and people could make bootlegs of your dragon sorcerer's dragon shaped sigil (let's be honest- pretty much no dragon sorcerer is going to pick anything else as their sigil unless they are being consciously contrary).
But this version says so much less about what a sigil actually IS than arcane mark does. The mark explicitly says character length, so you could write one of your names, or maybe your initials or a basic nickname.
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You ever heard of the old method of marking walls in the dungeon with chalk so you know where you’ve gone? Sigil can be used for that.
If you’re worried that someone is going to steal or swap out your stuff, mark it with a Sigil so you know what’s yours.
Alternately, make crude drawings on your desk/the wall at the local wizard academy.
Making transmuters feel bad about their life choices, mostly.
There are mundane uses for it (marking travel paths, mazes, 'I was here' messages), but you can frankly do that with a knife, so... whatever.
Mostly Squiggit's answer. Its the lowest level warning of what happens to flavor & utility spells in a combat-math-over-everything edition.
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Mostly Squiggit's answer. Its the lowest level warning of what happens to flavor & utility spells in a combat-math-over-everything edition.
While I agree some utility spells are a little weak, I see it less as being combat-math-over-everything and moreso letting magic be an option rather than the absolute best option in every scenario.
Not every spell in the game has to be optimal for PCs and adventurers. I think sigil was necessary because it really can’t fit under prestidigitation, since that requires sustaining, but the ability to magically mark things seems like it would be a pretty important functional part of life in a world with magic. Golarion’s banksy is out there somewhere.
But measured in terms of opportunity cost, where does it sit? Not that a spontaneous caster was likely to have Arcane Mark in PF1, though pages helped, but as a Wizard...
... would you ever pick it as an advancement spell? When? Over what?
Or is it just more of an "well, of course I'll pick up something that can cast 'Sigil', even if just a few scrolls" type of spell?
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If I am not an adventuring wizard, but an advisor to a ruler, I think the opportunity cost of having one of my daily cantrips be a spell I might cast 100+ times a day is much lower than thinking I need 3 combat cantrips that I might use once in a year. Just because a spell doesn't leap out as adventurer useful doesn't mean that it is not important to the world as a whole.
It still states that you place your unique magical sigil on the document. And it only fades if you place it on a creature - placing it on an object is still permanent.In PF1 I used it as a tool for noble to sign their official documents with a rule stating that if you don't have the exact formula for the spell that cast a specific sigil you can't reproduce the sigil of another...
I don't know why this spell has been nerfed but well... it has and I will have to find something new for my noble to sign their documents...
Yeah, until someone spends 5 minutes to scrape it off. It's no more permanent than a wax seal.
Not every spell in the game has to be optimal for PCs and adventurers. I think sigil was necessary because it really can’t fit under prestidigitation, since that requires sustaining, but the ability to magically mark things seems like it would be a pretty important functional part of life in a world with magic. Golarion’s banksy is out there somewhere.
A symbol that can be easily removed is 100% useless for this. Just use ink.
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If I am not an adventuring wizard, but an advisor to a ruler, I think the opportunity cost of having one of my daily cantrips be a spell I might cast 100+ times a day is much lower than thinking I need 3 combat cantrips that I might use once in a year. Just because a spell doesn't leap out as adventurer useful doesn't mean that it is not important to the world as a whole.
This.
In my campaigns my players often have the choice to be rewarded with land to rule as they become famous and help this kingdom or that ruler... It's an option I give them and usually they take it at one point or another... That's where they usually think on a variety of spells they didn't think of taking before... Like something to avoid disease on crops for a druid, or a Sigil spell as an official signature for their fief etc.
I have a lot of utility spells specifically for realm rulers that I have taken left and right in very old books and that I adapt to the current rules...
The real question is why is this spell in the core rule-book (well except for historical reasons) and not in a book about realm spells or more rp oriented spells... ;)
It still states that you place your unique magical sigil on the document. And it only fades if you place it on a creature - placing it on an object is still permanent.In PF1 I used it as a tool for noble to sign their official documents with a rule stating that if you don't have the exact formula for the spell that cast a specific sigil you can't reproduce the sigil of another...
I don't know why this spell has been nerfed but well... it has and I will have to find something new for my noble to sign their documents...
Yeah, until someone spends 5 minutes to scrape it off. It's no more permanent than a wax seal.
Not every spell in the game has to be optimal for PCs and adventurers. I think sigil was necessary because it really can’t fit under prestidigitation, since that requires sustaining, but the ability to magically mark things seems like it would be a pretty important functional part of life in a world with magic. Golarion’s banksy is out there somewhere.A symbol that can be easily removed is 100% useless for this. Just use ink.
Really, the idea of being able to instantly make a small intricate drawing appear or disappear and change states at will, without having to cary around a stamp or ink, doesn't sound cool to anyone else? I assume I could change it, add a date, alter its color or other features at will too. I would be willing to bet there is a whole school of research dedicated to forming something like a dewy decimal system of sigils for organizing and sorting documents. It only fades off of people after a week, and I don't really think you can be scrubbing or scraping it off of paper at all.
The real question is why is this spell in the core rule-book (well except for historical reasons) and not in a book about realm spells or more rp oriented spells... ;)
And more specifically why it is really a transmutation spell and not a conjuration or evocation spell, as well as why there can't be any other transmutation cantrips in the core rule book.
The concept of using a magical rune as a signature or seal is pretty cool, but I'm not sure how practical it's going to be when the effect can explicitly be rubbed off.
If I am not an adventuring wizard
An adventuring wizard who's a transmuter is required to have this cantrip.
and moreso letting magic be an option rather than the absolute best option in every scenario.
I see that as a good argument for trimming back encounter-winning save or suck, or limiting the power or access to divinations or teleportations or cheap flight that can let groups just circumvent challenges.
But uh... I'm not sure how making it impossible for a sorcerer to clean a stain off the floor with prestidigitation falls into that same category.
And more specifically why it is really a transmutation spell and not a conjuration or evocation spell, as well as why there can't be any other transmutation cantrips in the core rule book.
For the first part I think historical reason is one of the answer.
For the later it's certainly because all the transmutation cantrips they could think of goes in the realm or rp spells too or are already in the prestidigitation trick spell, the others would be too powerful for an "at will" spell (you can't augment speed or lifting weight etc. at will it's too powerful)... :p
The concept of using a magical rune as a signature or seal is pretty cool, but I'm not sure how practical it's going to be when the effect can explicitly be rubbed off.
You know that a signature can be scrubbed off to, a wax seal too... At least you can't easily reproduce this one...
Though to be frank at my table I intend to re-establish the Detect Magic glow part and the non-removing part on non living creature. But that's Homebrew... ;)
And more specifically why it is really a transmutation spell and not a conjuration or evocation spell, as well as why there can't be any other transmutation cantrips in the core rule book.For the first part I think historical reason is one of the answer.
For the later it's certainly because all the transmutation cantrips they could think of goes in the realm or rp spells too or are already in the prestidigitation trick spell, the others would be too powerful for an "at will" spell (you can't augment speed or lifting weight etc. at will it's too powerful)... :p
I mean, there are lots of other Transmutation Cantrip possibilities.
Ripping Talons
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: Touch
Target: 1 Creature
Your nails grow into sharp talons, lashing out at your foe. Make a spell attack roll, dealing Slashing damage equal 1D8 + your spellcasting modifier.
Boiling Blood
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 feet
Target: 1 Creature
Save: Fortitude
You cause the target's blood to boil for an instant dealing 1D6 + your spellcasting modifier Fire damage. The target makes a Basic Saving through. On a Critical Failure the target is also Sickened 1 as their entire body spasms from the pain.
Swords to Plowshares
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 Feet
Target: 1 Weapon wielded by a creature. (Unarmed and Natural attacks are not weapons)
Save: Dexterity
You hold your enemy's hostility at bay by momentarily turning their weapon into a harmless farm tool.
Critical Success: The weapon is unaffected.
Success: The weapon deals half damage for 1 round.
Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 1 round.
Critical Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 2 rounds.
I mean, there are lots of other Transmutation Cantrip possibilities.
Let's see that...
Ripping Talons
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: Touch
Target: 1 Creature
Your nails grow into sharp talons, lashing out at your foe. Make a spell attack roll, dealing Slashing damage equal 1D8 + your spellcasting modifier.
1d8 ??? Are you crazy ? The best cantrip is Electric Arc with 1d4 and you have not even speak of heightened bonus (the most interesting things) or critical/failure modifiers... Come on...
Do you prefer a 1d8+SC Modifier or a 1d4+SCM that can be heightened by 1d4 ?And for the Witch : Wait until you see the final result for now no heightened... ;)
Boiling Blood
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 feet
Target: 1 Creature
Save: Fortitude
You cause the target's blood to boil for an instant dealing 1D6 + your spellcasting modifier Fire damage. The target makes a Basic Saving through. On a Critical Failure the target is also Sickened 1 as their entire body spasms from the pain.
Same as before no heightened...
Swords to Plowshares
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 Feet
Target: 1 Weapon wielded by a creature. (Unarmed and Natural attacks are not weapons)
Save: Dexterity
You hold your enemy's hostility at bay by momentarily turning their weapon into a harmless farm tool.
Critical Success: The weapon is unaffected.
Success: The weapon deals half damage for 1 round.
Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 1 round.
Critical Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 2 rounds.
Oh a full spelled well.. Spell.. :p
Well I don't understand this spell... If you crit you don't do anything to the enemy weapon ? And if you Crit Fail your enemy weapon become disabled for 2 turns ? Not that I don't have concept for always failure caster but...
Even if this crit fail and your weapon is disabled then well.. you're a distance what's the downside ?
I mean, there are lots of other Transmutation Cantrip possibilities.Let's see that...
Ripping Talons
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: Touch
Target: 1 Creature
Your nails grow into sharp talons, lashing out at your foe. Make a spell attack roll, dealing Slashing damage equal 1D8 + your spellcasting modifier.1d8 ??? Are you crazy ? The best cantrip is Electric Arc with 1d4 and you have not even speak of heightened bonus (the most interesting things) or critical/failure modifiers... Come on...
Do you prefer a 1d8+SC Modifier or a 1d4+SCM that can be heightened by 1d4 ?
And for the Witch : Wait until you see the final result for now no heightened... ;)Same as before no heightened...Boiling Blood
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 feet
Target: 1 Creature
Save: Fortitude
You cause the target's blood to boil for an instant dealing 1D6 + your spellcasting modifier Fire damage. The target makes a Basic Saving through. On a Critical Failure the target is also Sickened 1 as their entire body spasms from the pain.
Electric Arc affects 2 targets at range and doesn't require a roll to hit. I think 1D8 for a Melee Cantrip where you have to roll to hit is just fine. I didn't do heighten effects for any of them, because they are just examples of things that could have the Transmutation tag. Chillax.
Swords to Plowshares
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 Feet
Target: 1 Weapon wielded by a creature. (Unarmed and Natural attacks are not weapons)
Save: Dexterity
You hold your enemy's hostility at bay by momentarily turning their weapon into a harmless farm tool.
Critical Success: The weapon is unaffected.
Success: The weapon deals half damage for 1 round.
Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 1 round.
Critical Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 2 rounds.Oh a full spelled well.. Spell.. :p
Well I don't understand this spell... If you crit you don't do anything to the enemy weapon ? And if you Crit Fail your enemy weapon become disabled for 2 turns ? Not that I don't have concept for always failure caster but...
Even if this crit fail and your weapon is disabled then well.. you're a distance what's the downside ?
It's a Save based spell. The Success/Failure effects are based on the enemy Succeeding or Failing on their Save. That's how all save based spells work. If the enemy Crit Succeeds nothing happens. If they Crit Fail, extra bad stuff happens.
Honestly that one is probably overpowered, as essentially disabling an enemy martial for 1-2 rounds is pretty strong for a Cantrip. It's just a rather iconic MTG Spell and I was having fun.
You could use a series of sigils and gaps to write in binary..
Bwahahaha
I love it. Morse code would also work well. One symbol for dit and two overlapping for dah.
Honestly that one is probably overpowered, as essentially disabling an enemy martial for 1-2 rounds is pretty strong for a Cantrip. It's just a rather iconic MTG Spell and I was having fun.
But I haven't understood where I gain life and where you lose life.. :p
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I mean, there are lots of other Transmutation Cantrip possibilities.
Ripping Talons
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: Touch
Target: 1 Creature
Your nails grow into sharp talons, lashing out at your foe. Make a spell attack roll, dealing Slashing damage equal 1D8 + your spellcasting modifier.
Probably fine, gonna make Chill Touch cry in a corner though. Maybe if it was Arcane/Primal?
Boiling Blood
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 feet
Target: 1 Creature
Save: Fortitude
You cause the target's blood to boil for an instant dealing 1D6 + your spellcasting modifier Fire damage. The target makes a Basic Saving through. On a Critical Failure the target is also Sickened 1 as their entire body spasms from the pain.
May actually be a little strong given current design, sickened 1 and stunned 1 are about the same power level so realistically this should do as much damage as Daze. Personally, I think Daze is a little undertuned though.
Swords to Plowshares
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 Feet
Target: 1 Weapon wielded by a creature. (Unarmed and Natural attacks are not weapons)
Save: Dexterity
You hold your enemy's hostility at bay by momentarily turning their weapon into a harmless farm tool.
Critical Success: The weapon is unaffected.
Success: The weapon deals half damage for 1 round.
Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 1 round.
Critical Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 2 rounds.
Definitely a bit too strong for a cantrip, disabling enemy martials for 1-2 rounds. Also what's a dexterity save? :P
I would do
Swords to Plowshares
Transmutation
2 Actions
Range: 30 Feet
Target: 1 Weapon or unarmed attack that a creature within range is wielding or has.
Save: Reflex
You hold your enemy's hostility at bay by twisting their weapon into a clunkier, more useless form.
Critical Success: The weapon is unaffected.
Success: The creature takes a -1 status penalty to attack rolls with that weapon or unarmed attack for 1 round.
Failure: The creature takes a -2 status penalty to attack rolls with that weapon or unarmed attack for 1 round.
Critical Failure: The weapon cannot be used to attack for 1 round.
The iconic spell "Magic Stone" also seems to be missing, let's put that in
Magic Stone
Transmutation
One Action
Range: Touch
Target: One Sling Bullet you are wearing or carrying.
Duration: 1 round.
You enchant a stone to be more deadly when fired. You may Interact to reload a sling as part of this cantrip. If you make an Attack with the sling using the enchanted bullet, you may add your spellcasting ability modifier to the damage of that attack.
Heightened(+2): The attack deals an additional 1d6 damage.
I like Sigil kind of spells: the one you can only use with a whole bunch of imagination. One of the best adventuring use I'd see is to 'follow' items. For example, marking a whole bunch of contraband or future stolen goods and then follow them when you find such goods or through the Locate spell. Give a potentially corrupted employee sigiled coins and then randomly check his purse to see if most coins are sigiled or not. But clearly, I don't see any combat use.
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Magical Zorro.
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Probably fine, gonna make Chill Touch cry in a corner though. Maybe if it was Arcane/Primal?
To be fair, I'm not sure what they were doing giving the melee range cantrip the same damage as the 30/60/120 foot ones without anything else really going for it (it even provokes!).
Though even with that said, Chill Touch also has some advantages compared to this hypothetical cantrip: half damage on a successful save, double damage + enfeeble on a crit and it's not an attack so it doesn't incur MAP. Those drag its average damage output closer than it initially appears, especially at low levels.