Wild Shape Druid: Halberd vs Wild Morph


Advice


I've been using a wild shape druid and when using him in non-wild shape form I wanted to know which build was more optimal when attacking and also casting spells.

At level 8 right now I have 18 str, 18 wis, 14 dex and 14 con.

I want to know the math for my character at level 12. As part of the non-wild shape form I would cast enlarge and have a greater striking rune.

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Halberd + Enlarge + Expert in martial weapons + Greater Striking Rune

Attack Roll:
12(Level) + 4 (str) + 4(expert) + 2(greater striking rune) -1(clumsy) = +21 attack roll
Damage Roll:
3D10 + 4(str) + 4(enlarge) = 3D10 + 8 Dmg = 24.5 avg dmg + Reach + versatility of halberd being 2 types of dmg

Wild Jaws + Enlarge + Expert proficient in unarmed strikes + Handwraps w greater striking rune

Attack Roll:
12 (level) + 4 (str) + 4 (Expert) + 2 (Handwraps w greater striking rune) - 1 (clumsy) = +21 Attack roll
Damage Roll:
3D8 + 4 (Str) + 4 (enlarge) + 2D6 (poison) = 3d8 + 25 Dmg = 28.5 avg dmg

Wild Shape + Enlarge + Expert Proficient in unarmed strikes + Handwraps (Greater Striking Rune)

This is the same as wild jaws, except its D6 dmg BUT I wouldn't need to take a feat into 'insect form'.

Damage Roll:
3D6 + 4(str) + 4(enlarge) + 2D6(poison) = 3D6 + 8 + 2D6 = avg 25.5 dmg

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Am I missing anything?

Which of the 3 would you recommend at level 12?

Any changes you'd make?

Thanks in advance!

Liberty's Edge

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Clumsy doesn't apply to melee attack rolls. So that's +22, actually.

Enlarge, however, is a Polymorph effect, and thus cannot be used with either Wild Claws or Wild Shape.

Meanwhile, Wild Shape (in the hands of a Wild Order Druid) adds a +2 Status bonus on top of your normal attack total, so that would be +24. And, with a Feat or two, your damage can be a lot higher than that. Dragon Shape gives you 2d12+2d6+6 for an average damage of 26...but an average DPR of 32.5 on two attacks, as compared to the Halberd's DPR of 23.275, due to Wild Shape's greater accuracy. Without the Feat for Dragon Form, you're stuck being a bear, but even that is 4d8+7 for 25 damage...so not a huge downgrade.

So...Wild Shape is the way to go.


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Wild Morph is a morph effect. It can be used with Enlarge.


Would a halberd not count as a metal weapon anyway?


I want to see the Math with the updated calculations now. A Melee druid that doesn't 100% need wild shape would be great to see, math-wise.


Gaulin wrote:
Would a halberd not count as a metal weapon anyway?

Metal weapons are allowed, only metal armor and shields are not.


Atalius wrote:
Gaulin wrote:
Would a halberd not count as a metal weapon anyway?
Metal weapons are allowed, only metal armor and shields are not.

Oh man, I've been nerfing myself for so long

Silver Crusade

Something else to factor in.

If you're knocked out or somehow otherwise lose your weapon you need an action to grab it back up (assuming it hasn't been taken). If you're using wild shape or wild morph that isn't an issue.

Plus, of course, its just COOLER to maul somebody as a bear/dragon/whatever than to hit them with a pointy stick :-) :-).

And the movement options are hardly irrelevant. Just looking at animal form, swim speed or climb speed or 50 ft movement.

For me, at level 12 its Dragon Form all the way (as long as there is sufficient space).

On the other hand, it isn't at all clear how handwraps interact with wild shape. So, check with your GM on that. Although I now notice that you assume they do NOT interact in your damage calculation.


Sounds like the OP has a very high Wisdom (a hybrid) indicating he would like to cast spells so Morph has value. In Dragon form be would not be able to cast.

Silver Crusade

Atalius wrote:
Sounds like the OP has a very high Wisdom (a hybrid) indicating he would like to cast spells so Morph has value. In Dragon form be would not be able to cast.

A very valid point. But it also sounds like he wants to melee. And it is only a single action to shift back which means that, in an emergency, he can shift and cast in a single round.

It also depends a lot on how close to a 15 minute adventuring day the group has. If there are a LOT of encounters than wild shape is really, really cheap (as in free :-)) for those encounters that don't require spells. It can really extend the adventuring day if that is a significant benefit for his group.

To me it largely depends on whether he sees himself as a caster first and a melee character second or the other way around.


I feel equally about casting spells or using an attack with wild jaws or a halberd. Ideally I'd like to attack once with weapon and cast a spell in same round.

I am planning on taking dragon form at level 12. I have fighter dedication and I want to use AoO's, will flying let me do that?

I'm still not sure if I should go with wild morph - wild jaws OR a halberd. Wild Jaws seems to be doing more damage but halberd gives me more reach and versatility of weapon types. Recommendations on which path seems stronger?

Liberty's Edge

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RexAliquid wrote:
Wild Morph is a morph effect. It can be used with Enlarge.

Ah! You're right. Of course it's the one thing I didn't check.

Combined with the persistent damage, that makes the Wild Morph definitely superior to the halberd, though it'll usually still lag behind Wild Shape outside some niche circumstances.

Crexis wrote:
I feel equally about casting spells or using an attack with wild jaws or a halberd. Ideally I'd like to attack once with weapon and cast a spell in same round.

If you want to do this, you'll need to use Wild Morph or a halberd, or talk to your GM about Dragon Form. Logically, Dragon Form should allow spellcasting, but the text doesn't support that.

Crexis wrote:
I am planning on taking dragon form at level 12. I have fighter dedication and I want to use AoO's, will flying let me do that?

Yes, of course it will. As long as they move through your reach (which is substantial as a dragon), anyway.

Crexis wrote:
I'm still not sure if I should go with wild morph - wild jaws OR a halberd. Wild Jaws seems to be doing more damage but halberd gives me more reach and versatility of weapon types. Recommendations on which path seems stronger?

Wild Jaws requires the expenditure of resources, but yes, it's just better in terms of damage. I'd say if you're gonna be using Enlarge regularly, that gives you enough reach to not worry about the extra from the halberd, and you can always take a minor hit to damage to use the claws instead of jaws and change damage types that way.

Wild Shape is better yet, but does indeed probably curtail in-combat casting.

Silver Crusade

Why do you need to choose? For a pretty minimal cost in feats you can have wild morph AND wild shape. Then you can pick which one a particular situation needs and see which you actually use.

If, after actual use, you find yourself almost always using one or the other then retrain and/or sell.

Take the best of both worlds.

The Exchange

why is the OP getting their Strength bonus to damage in wild shape?

Ah - NVM. They meant to say wild morph

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