So, there's this trait: Two World Magic.
Benefit: Select one 0-level spell from a class spell list other than your own. This spell is a 0-level spell on your class spell list (or a 1st-level spell if your class doesn’t have 0-level spells). For example, if you are a druid, you could select mage hand and thereafter prepare it as a 0-level druid spell; if you are a sorcerer, you could select know direction as a 0-level sorcerer spell known.
I think you can fill in the blanks from there regarding what I plan to do.
So, two questions:
Is this legit, or is there something I overlooked? I can prepare Prestidigitation as a 1st level extract now, right? The rules reference the Formulae list as also being a spell list several times, so I don't think terminology disqualifies it.
Secondly, would it even be an extract at all? The trait says I can prepare it as a spell, so...?
RAW, no - an Alchemist does not have a spell list (but rather a formula list).
In order to write a formula into your formula book, it has to be on your formula list, which is not a spell list.
I'd definitely allow it as a GM, though.
|
I don't think the problem is about spell-list vs formula-list, but rather spell-slots.
This spell is a 0-level spell on your class spell list (or a 1st-level spell if your class doesn’t have 0-level spells).
Alchemists do not have 0-level spells, therefore it counts as a 1st-level spell. Congrats, you now have your normal formula-list, and a spell-list with a single 1st level spell on it.
The problem being that you do not have spell slots to prepare it. In other words, this trait works on an Alchemist the same way it would work on a Fighter. They would both gain a 1st level spell, with no spell-slots to cast it from.
there are other traits\feats\class abilities that let you cast cantrips (1 picked) as sla
Magic items for cantrips are usually pretty cheap anyway. Apprentice's Cheating Gloves can get you at will Mage Hand and Prestidigitation for 2200g. Lantern of Auras will give you detect magic for 2000g. I'm sure there are others, but those are the big cantrips.
As you say, appropriate classes can substitute 'formula' for 'spell' in roughly the same way as 'grit' and 'panache'. Therefore, yes you can get Prestidigitation as a 1st level extract. You do not get it as a 'spell' because your class doesn't do spells.
Then why can't Investigators use wands?
|
|
As you say, appropriate classes can substitute 'formula' for 'spell' in roughly the same way as 'grit' and 'panache'. Therefore, yes you can get Prestidigitation as a 1st level extract. You do not get it as a 'spell' because your class doesn't do spells.Then why can't Investigators use wands?
An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so).
Alchemists can use wands, and I am pretty sure the same applies to Investigators. They cannot however use scrolls without UMD, which I think is the point of your comment anyway.
|
|
Then why can't Investigators use wands?Because the game made a specific exception to take that ability away from them... unlike alchemists.
Is it explicitly written anywhere that Investigators cannot use spell-trigger items? Or is it simply because Investigator-Alchemy lacks that sentence, unlike Alchemist-Alchemy?
I am not implying that the absence of the sentence from the Alchemy paragraph is not enough to say that, indeed, Investigators cannot activate wands, I am just wondering whether there is something more explicit written somewhere else.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is it explicitly written anywhere that Investigators cannot use spell-trigger items?
Yes, there was a FAQ.
Then why can't Investigators use wands?Because the game made a specific exception to take that ability away from them... unlike alchemists.
This is the opposite of how it is. It's Alchemist which has the specific exception, while Investigator lacks it. If spells and alchemy were treated as the same for most things, neither class would need this special allowance.
Similarly, while an alchemist can copy from a spellbook, the other way around doesn't work ("An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book." APG pg. 28).Grit and Panache are only mostly interchangably because there's explicit ruletext saying so. Not only does alchemy lack such language, it is explicitly said ("the alchemist doesn’t actually cast spells", APG pg. 27) and confirmed ("alchemists are not spellcasters") that alchemy users don't cast spells.
|
|
If spells and alchemy were treated as the same for most things, neither class would need this special allowance.
...
Grit and Panache are only mostly interchangably because there's explicit ruletext saying so.
So, something like;
"Alchemists are not only masters of creating mundane alchemical substances such as alchemist’s fire and smokesticks, but also of fashioning magical potion-like extracts in which they can store spell effects. In effect, an alchemist prepares his spells by mixing ingredients into a number of extracts, and then “casts” his spells by drinking the extract."
Nevermind guys! I guess I found what I was looking for, kinda. This actually isn't that good, but helps for context in this discussion:
Spell Knowledge:
Benefit(s) Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell’s level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You’re considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.
This is a discovery. It doesn't change anything RAW-wise, of course. Just thought it was relevant.
That's an odd one. Can anybody think of any way it might be worth taking?Nevermind guys! I guess I found what I was looking for, kinda. This actually isn't that good, but helps for context in this discussion:
Spell Knowledge:
Benefit(s) Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell’s level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You’re considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.This is a discovery. It doesn't change anything RAW-wise, of course. Just thought it was relevant.
If you want access to a spell that is on the sorcerer/wizard spell list but not on the alchemist formula list, this is how you would get it without multiclassing. Access would include actually casting it using your extract slots as well as using wands or scrolls for that spell without having to make Use Magic Device checks.
You could also qualify for prestige classes that require you to be able to cast arcane spells.
