I'm a little perplex about Spiritual Weapon. To attack with it, you have to make melee spell attack rolls that add to your MAP. But on the descritive text of Spiritual Weapon, nothing states that "you" are attacking. The spell text only speaks about the weapon.
It raises questions:
- Does it benefit from flanking if I flank the enemy?
- Can I feint against the enemy and treat it as Flat-Footed?
- What if I'm hiding?
The fact that it adds to your MAP makes me think I should apply all bonuses and penalties as if I was attacking the enemy... But it may sound illogical if you consider the weapon as being dissociated from myself.
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The weapon doesn’t take up space, grant flanking, or have
any other attributes a creature would. The weapon can’t make
any attack other than its Strike, and feats or spells that affect
weapons do not apply to it.
That answers the Flanking question. The Spiritual Weapon itself cannot qualify for flanking because it does not meet the requirements of the Flank since it cannot grant flanking.
If you feinted against an enemy and they are flat footed, that would apply to the Spiritual Weapon attacks, as that is a debuff to their AC and not a bonus to the Spiritual Weapons attack.
If you are hiding, then you the caster are hidden. Doesn't change anything about the Spiritual Weapons attacks that I can see.
If you were mounted, your mount would also use and contribute to your MAP (CRB page 478, Mounted Attacks). Pretty sure that doesn't mean it gets your other bonuses and penalties automatically. So I wouldn't try to extrapolate from that property.
If you were mounted, your mount would also use and contribute to your MAP (CRB page 478, Mounted Attacks). Pretty sure that doesn't mean it gets your other bonuses and penalties automatically. So I wouldn't try to extrapolate from that property.
Yeah, but my Mount is a separate creature. It doesn't get neither my bonuses nor maluses. If I'm stupedied, would you apply the malus to the Spiritual Weapon attacks?
And if I have the Magical Trickster feat, would you apply my Sneak Attack damage to the Spiritual Weapon if it attacks a Flat-Footed opponent?If you feinted against an enemy and they are flat footed, that would apply to the Spiritual Weapon attacks, as that is a debuff to their AC and not a bonus to the Spiritual Weapons attack.
Feint only works on my next melee attack. So, does Spiritual Weapon qualify for you?
Edit: In fact, when I read about Dancing Weapons, I see 2 big differences with Spiritual Weapon: It doesn't add to my MAP and it uses it's own attack bonus. In my opinion, the Spiritual Weapon has to be treated as a spell. I'm doing the attack, benefiting from all the bonuses and maluses I have.
If you feinted against an enemy and they are flat footed, that would apply to the Spiritual Weapon attacks, as that is a debuff to their AC and not a bonus to the Spiritual Weapons attack.Feint only works on my next melee attack. So, does Spiritual Weapon qualify for you?
Spiritual Weapon is not a Minion. It moves and attacks when you sustain the spell.
Each
time you Sustain the Spell, you can move the weapon to a new
target within range (if needed) and Strike with it.
Since Spiritual Weapon has the Attack trait and you roll a "melee spell attack roll" to attack with it, yes. Feint would work.
Edit: Yes, Stupify would effect the attack roll.
[quote=CRB PG 305 "Spell Attack Rolls"
Spell attack rolls benefit from any bonuses or penalties to
attack rolls, including your multiple attack penalty, but not
any special benefits or penalties that apply only to weapon
or unarmed attacks. Spell attacks don’t deal any damage
beyond what’s listed in the spell description.
This also means that they would not benefit from Sneak Attack or any other weapon specific buffs unless you have an ability that specifically state that it does benefit from it. So Magical Trickster would allow you to Sneak Attack with your Spiritual Weapon.
Since Spiritual Weapon has the Attack trait and you roll a "melee spell attack roll" to attack with it, yes. Feint would work.
Feint works for "my" attacks. As does Flanking:
"A creature is flat-footed (taking a –2 circumstance penalty to AC) to creatures that are flanking it."So, for me, it's hard to say that it's one and not the other.
In my opinion, Spiritual Weapon should be treated the same way than Produce Flame. All the "weapony" stuff is just fluff.
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Since Spiritual Weapon has the Attack trait and you roll a "melee spell attack roll" to attack with it, yes. Feint would work.Feint works for "my" attacks. As does Flanking:
"A creature is flat-footed (taking a –2 circumstance penalty to AC) to creatures that are flanking it."
So, for me, it's hard to say that it's one and not the other.In my opinion, Spiritual Weapon should be treated the same way than Produce Flame. All the "weapony" stuff is just fluff.
The difference is that Spiritual Weapon clearly states that it does not count for flanking. Spiritual Weapon is one of your attacks, so if you feint an enemy the penalty will apply to their AC for the melee spell attack roll.
Think of Spiritual weapon as roundabout way of doing an attack without actually having to be in danger. It literally does nothing but that.
Also it counts as a weapon for, "purposes of triggers, resistances, and so forth." which is kinda nice depending on your deities weapon and the enemy you are fighting. Could also suck if you have the wrong damage type.
The difference is that Spiritual Weapon clearly states that it does not count for flanking. Spiritual Weapon is one of your attacks, so if you feint an enemy the penalty will apply to their AC for the melee spell attack roll.
Think of Spiritual weapon as roundabout way of doing an attack without actually having to be in danger. It literally does nothing but that.
Also it counts as a weapon for, "purposes of triggers, resistances, and so forth." which is kinda nice depending on your deities weapon and the enemy you are fighting. Could also suck if you have the wrong damage type.
I think you haven't understood me: I'm speaking of using the Spiritual Weapon on an enemy I am flanking (with our Fighter, for example). In that case, I think I should have the flanking bonus.
About resistances, it's not that bad considering it's dealing Force damage. I don't think there are many enemies with Force resistance.
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Well in my optioning if you are in flanking and would get the bonus on other spell attacks it would apply to the spiritual weapon. But since it is always considered a melee spell Attack you (your character) would have to benefit from flanking...not the spell.
Spell Attacks
Some spells require you to succeed at a spell attack roll
to affect the target. This is usually because they require
you to precisely aim a ray or otherwise make an accurate
attack. A spell attack roll is compared to the target’s AC.
Spell attack rolls benefit from any bonuses or penalties to
attack rolls, including your multiple attack penalty, but not
any special benefits or penalties that apply only to weapon
or unarmed attacks. Spell attacks don’t deal any damage
beyond what’s listed in the spell description.
This is my opinion on how I would rule it at my table...if the character was in the position to grant or receive a flanking bonus then it applies. The spell by it self does not grant flanking..
but I have been know to be wrong before :)
Your spell attack rolls you were making as part of your own attacks would get the benefits of flanking, but your spiritual weapon would not even if you were flanking. While it uses your spell attack roll and MAP, it's the floating weapon that's making the attack, not you in this situation.
I can understand the viewpoint that you're the one making the attack, but the weapon is pretty clearly described as an object that operates independently of you similar to an animal companion (otherwise it wouldn't have to state that it used and contributed to your MAP).
I think it's not the intent because of Dancing Weapon. Dancing Weapon has a fixed attack bonus and doesn't add to your MAP. In my opinion, Dancing Weapon is how an independant weapon should behave.