is Widen Spell meant to affect Emanations?

[Saros Palanthios]

The Widen Spell feat reads

Quote:

You manipulate the energy of your spell, causing it to spread out and affect a wider area. If the next action you use is to Cast a Spell that has an area of a burst, cone, or line and does not have a duration, increase the area of that spell. Add 5 feet to the radius of a burst that normally has a radius of at least 10 feet (a burst with a smaller radius is not affected). Add 5 feet to the length of a cone or line that is normally 15 feet long or smaller, and add 10 feet to the length of a larger cone or line.

So it affects bursts, cones, and lines-- but it doesn't say anything about emanations. Is that intentional, or a mistake?

[Castilliano]

There's no indication at this point that it's a mistake.
Given how rigorous Paizo has been with spell development, I have to believe it's intentional unless official word comes down.

[Saros Palanthios]

I assume so too, it does seem odd though.

TBH I don't really understand the point of differentiating between Bursts and Emanations in the first place. I get that Emanations originate from a square and Bursts originate from a grid intersection, but why not just have caster-centered Bursts originate from a corner of the caster's square?

(Not being sarcastic, genuinely want to learn-- i didn't participate in the playtest so i missed a lot of discussions about whys and wherefores)

[mrspaghetti]

Saros Palanthios wrote:

I assume so too, it does seem odd though.

TBH I don't really understand the point of differentiating between Areas and Emanations in the first place. I get that Emanations originate from a square and Areas originate from a grid intersection, but why not just have caster-centered Areas originate from a corner of the caster's square?

(Not being sarcastic, genuinely want to learn-- i didn't participate in the playtest so i missed a lot of discussions about whys and wherefores)

Emanations start at the edge of the caster, so the spell area would be one thing if the caster were medium sized and something else if it were huge, for example.

I'm just describing how an emanations is different from a burst, not opining about whether Widen should apply or not at this point. Clearly not, RAW.

[Zwordsman]

I also think burst and emanations have different rules on the target. I think if its an emanation the emeninator actually is excluded?

[BellyBeard]

Zwordsman wrote:

I also think burst and emanations have different rules on the target. I think if its an emanation the emeninator actually is excluded?

Not clear. Consider 3 action Harm VS Heal. In the previous edition channel energy affected the caster with heals but not harms (unless undead maybe?) I'm currently ruling as "caster's choice" whether it does affect the originating creature, just so I don't inadvertently nerf some spells.

[Plantman81]

@BellyBeard & @Zwordsman, Regarding whether or not the caster is included in the caster's emanation, here is the definition of Emanation on AoN:
"Source Player Core pg. 428 2.0
An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions. For instance, the bless spell’s emanation radiates 15 or more feet outward from the caster. Because the sides of a creature’s space are the starting point for the emanation, an emanation from a Large or larger creature affects a greater overall area than that of a Medium or smaller creature. Unless the text states otherwise, the creature creating an emanation effect chooses whether the creature at its center is affected."
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2387

[YuriP]

Oh a resurrection of a topic from CRB 1st print era! kkkk

[steelhead]

YuriP wrote:

Oh a resurrection of a topic from CRB 1st print era! kkkk

Not everyone has been on these boards since CRB 1st print era.

I believe one of the big distinguishing factors between emanation and burst is how long each occurs. A burst happens and then is done (like a bomb blast), while an emanation has a continuous radiating effect.

[steelhead]

Expanding an emanation might have been seen as too strong by the developers because it improves the area _and_ has a longer term affect on the battlefield.

[Tyriphian the Thread Psychopomp]

steelhead wrote:

YuriP wrote:

Oh a resurrection of a topic from CRB 1st print era! kkkk

Not everyone has been on these boards since CRB 1st print era.

No, but everyone can learn to read the dates of postings.

Not everyone who has contributed to a thread from the distant past is still here to be communicated with.

[The Ghost of Forum's Past]

steelhead wrote:

I believe one of the big distinguishing factors between emanation and burst is how long each occurs. A burst happens and then is done (like a bomb blast), while an emanation has a continuous radiating effect.

Also this is wrong. There are instantaneous emanations. There's no difference between area effects apart from areas. There could be lines with duration.

A-a-a-anyway, let this topic rest. Finally.

[Powers128]

Animist has a unique version of widen spell that explicitly works with emanations. It turns off your vessel spells though

[steelhead]

Powers128 wrote:

Animist has a unique version of widen spell that explicitly works with emanations. It turns off your vessel spells though

That is good to know. Thanks!