I so far really like the current AP, other than some minor elements. I was expecting not to like it given my own ideas about Hermea, but the world trotting aspect is a good fit for a new edition.
Tyrant's Grasp hasn't wowed me. I don't think it's the AP's fault though, just that my interest in it has been overwhelmed by the new edition release, plus the last few months have been utterly insane as far as my personal life goes, so I haven't had much time to dig into it.
There are elements of Return of the Runelords, but elements I also think were handled pretty poorly.
For what it's worth, my favorite AP's are probably Iron Gods, Reign of Winter, and Strange Aeons. I like me some weird non-traditional stuff, so the less weird stuff in those recent AP's probably didn't help.
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Return of Runelords and Tyrant's Grasp were disappointing since they were more of 'Be Sorshen/Azlanti's sidekicks/gofers' rather than the PCs own stories. Having to babysit a Sorshen clone looked real annoying and I do believe TG outright stated that the AP was Azlanti/WT's story.
Plus the last chapter was criminally short and the rest of the book taken up by trivia that would have been better posted on blogs.
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'Arazni's story' is certainly part of Tyrant's Grasp, but it's almost entirely contained in Chapter 4. It's hard to say a whole AP is the story of a character who only really shows up for a single chapter.
I'm not sure 'Sorshen's sidekicks' is really accurate for Return of the Runelords, either. She certainly shows up more, but the PCs are still the ones who need to save her and defeat the villain in the end.
In Return of the Runelords, the PCs travel with Sorshen for one chapter in one book. She can be a quest giver, but doesn't need to be.
I like Age of Ashes a lot. It takes a little work from the GM to make the plot connections clear rather than looking coincidental, but all the chapters are a lot of fun. It would have been easy to make the first 2e adventure path a simple, clichéd affair, but Age of Ashes gives a good mix of interesting combat and unique role-playing opportunities in each book.
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Return of Runelords and Tyrant's Grasp were disappointing since they were more of 'Be Sorshen/Azlanti's sidekicks/gofers' rather than the PCs own stories. Having to babysit a Sorshen clone looked real annoying and I do believe TG outright stated that the AP was Azlanti/WT's story.
Plus the last chapter was criminally short and the rest of the book taken up by trivia that would have been better posted on blogs.
i don't think those characterizations are quite fair.
tg: arazni is in one book, and she isn't much different from any other helpful npc/quest giver.
rr: sorshen lurks around the edges of a few books, but she's not a direct player, iirc, after the start of book 4
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In Return of the Runelords, the PCs travel with Sorshen for one chapter in one book. She can be a quest giver, but doesn't need to be.
I like Age of Ashes a lot. It takes a little work from the GM to make the plot connections clear rather than looking coincidental, but all the chapters are a lot of fun. It would have been easy to make the first 2e adventure path a simple, clichéd affair, but Age of Ashes gives a good mix of interesting combat and unique role-playing opportunities in each book.
I also found the conceit of "This is the Gobln book. Now the Elves, Now the Halflings..." to be an interesting way to introduce the world and setting, even if I feel that the halflings and gnomes didn't get as much of a starring role in *their* book (Halfings were central...eventually, but I didn't get much of a sense off gnomes at all).
I hope they do something similar later with the other ancestries; not an entire road trip AP, but a volume here or there showcases a thematically appropriate one might be a good way to show off the Lost Omens campaign setting.
I think they are getting better. At least in the stretch of Iron Gods to Tyrants Grasp. I don't know Age of Ashes, I'm gonna play it soon. But Some of the art used for PF2 Adventures I don't like.
There's an interesting review (the low scoring one by someone named "DR") I've just read on amazon for Hellknight Hill (Book 1 from Age of Ashes), along with the few comments added to that review.
Hellknight Hill on Amazon
With exception of missing the journals in each AP volume (I didn't care for them either), I have to agree with most of what DR says in his review and the later comment exchange. I've been thinking about some of his points as far back as book one of Ironfang.
I'm not trying to fuel fires in this thread but it kind of lines up with my thinking about Paizos direction and a reason or two why latest APs might seem underwhelming.
Apologies if this person's review offends some, this thread is an open discussion and it's just my opinion being added in. It paints a clearer picture (even for me) as to why I'm not on board with newer Paizo offerings.
*late edit- Goblins have come a long way from the psychotic variations in Burnt Offerings. You know, the ones that killed the neighbor's dog and chewed daddy's face off. Now they are supposed to be cutesy and loveable. :| To be fair some of that can be laid at Critical Role's feet.
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There's an interesting review (the low scoring one by someone named "DR") I've just read on amazon for Hellknight Hill (Book 1 from Age of Ashes), along with the few comments added to that review.
Hellknight Hill on Amazon
With exception of missing the journals in each AP volume (I didn't care for them either), I have to agree with most of what DR says in his review and the later comment exchange. I've been thinking about some of his points as far back as book one of Ironfang.
The usual and unfortunate Paizo gender activism is present, with the vast majority of the "leaders" in the module being female for some reason, detracting from the verisimilitude of the setting. (-1 star)
All we need to know.
(PS, most of their reviews are like that)
edit: don’t just take my word for it:
Cult of Cinders - virtue-signalling dross chock full of racial and gender activism masquerading as an adventure. But wait, there's more! Come for the gender and racial activism, and stay for the moralizing on veganism and homosexual matchmaking.
For some reason, Paizo felt the need to include an "Influence Point system" for the PCs interactions with the Ekujae elves, and it's nonsensical. First of all, the Ekujae are supposedly wary of strangers, but they don't act like this at all, instead warmly welcoming the PCs and throwing them a party. Second, the pluses and minuses to Influence are silly. The PCs take an extra day to destroy a dragon pillar? This apparently pisses off the Ekujae, who are doing nothing to help, and lessens the PCs influence over them, despite the PCs being essential to saving the day.
What's hilarious is that the party supposedly hopped through Hunter's Gate in pursuit of the Cinderclaws, yet once through, they are greeted by gentle, peace-loving dark-skinned elves who - naturally - want to throw the PCs a party for coming to visit, and request their help with all manner of random quests. These righteous quests allow the PCs to demonstrate their "wokeness" by refusing to hunt for meat and by matchmaking two gay dudes.
Want all females in leadership roles? Sure, why not! Want a "nonbinary" angel referred to as "they", creating confusing textual references? The whole point of this module is "wokeness", so heck yeah!
The one encounter where the writer decides not to attempt to subvert stereotypes, but instead to play them up is...you guessed it...when the party encounters the only white males in the module. Gerhard is presented as a pompous blowhard with no scruples, serving merely for the PCs to...yawn...once again show how "woke" they are. If the party offs Gerhard, the now infamous and notorious identical twin, Erhard, appears out of nowhere to take his place. Lazy, lazy, lazy writing.
That's right...these are the murky depths that Pathfinder has sunk to in 2019/2020.
Next up, building a disabled accessibility ramp through the community and preaching to all who will hear on the horrors of fat-shaming. Then, the PCs will self-flagellate as penance for the associated guilt incurred by past adventurers who have displaced native populations and supported colonialist empires. Finally, any light-skinned cis (a silly word) male adventurers will beg forgiveness to any and all who will listen for the atrocities committed by others of their ilk, and will offer reparations in atonement.
You think I'm exaggerating, but just you wait. This IS Paizo we're talking about here.
Grudging respect: the article in the back about the Ekujae elves is very well-written and evocative. As well, the general tone and tenor of the Mwangi and the Ekujae is flavorful. However, undercutting this is the Paizo insistence upon stripping away any edginess or events/descriptions that could make anyone uncomfortable. What we're left with is a feeling of nearly childlike innocence, much like in Hellknight Hill, overlaying the entire adventure.
Sexual and racial discrimination. Paizo has gone full "woke" mode, leading to a galling lack of verisimilitude in their products. This ties in with the first complaint (above) about every location seeming the same. If everyone, everywhere, is accepting and tolerant of everyone, then everything is uniform. If every settlement is a model of gender and ethnic balance and harmony (unless it's explicitly called out as being a matriarchy), then nothing stands out and nothing feels "real". Lack of verisimilitude.
To me that's a non issue, there's a whole slew of up and coming female writers so some reviewers are bound to see things that way.
I'm more in the mind of the loss of grittiness to become more mainstream and family friendly, like the change in goblins, lack of the darker elements like the Gral family of Ogres, and never doing a slaver arc (AD&D slaver series was epic) if that's true.
The usual and unfortunate Paizo gender activism is present, with the vast majority of the "leaders" in the module being female for some reason, detracting from the verisimilitude of the setting. (-1 star)
All we need to know.
(PS, most of their reviews are like that)
So because of his (and "most of their reviews are like that") gender activism comments, you don't think his other points are valid? That's what I'm getting from your post. You seem more enraged at his gender comments than the other points.
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So because of his (and "most of their reviews are like that") gender activism comments, you don't think his other points are valid? That's what I'm getting from your post. You seem more enraged at his gender comments than the other points.
Yes, because considering the appearance of female figures in leadership as "gender activism" reveals an acute deficit in the intellectual capability of that person, which in turn means that their opinions are of highly diminished value, approaching zero.
They're just too stupid to be taken seriously, in other words.
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never doing a slaver arc (AD&D slaver series was epic) if that's true.
What qualifies a slaver arc? Age of Ashes has a multi-book war between the PCs and a major slaver group which I think goes pretty deep on that matter.
Creative Director
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So because of his (and "most of their reviews are like that") gender activism comments, you don't think his other points are valid? .
No, but it does make it unpleasant (at best) to read the review and try to take any actual constructive criticism from it to heart.
That's good advice for anyone who's doing a review or providing feedback. If you want the person you're talking to to listen and take your comments under advisement, do so without pissing them off. I know that reading hate-laced reviews like this pretty much makes me not only stop reading the review, but also makes me less likely to seek out other reviews. It damages the entire process of feedback, even for those who are providing legitimate reviews.
Don't be a jerk. You ruin things for everyone.
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I'm more in the mind of the loss of grittiness to become more mainstream and family friendly, like the change in goblins, lack of the darker elements like the Gral family of Ogres, and never doing a slaver arc (AD&D slaver series was epic) if that's true.
This has NOTHING to do with a person's gender, and everything to do with the fact that, as Pathfinder grows more popular, Paizo has shifted toward "softer" content. While our products remain in the PG-13 zone, we've certainly skewed our content much closer toward the PG side of things rather than the R side of things over all.
We do still do pretty grim content now and then, but when we do, we'll drop in something akin to a "content warning"; see the relatively recent Nidal book as an example.
Personally, I do hope that we can do a grim adventure or even an Adventure Path again at some point. We'll see, but the world is a different place in many ways than it was 15 years ago...
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So because of his (and "most of their reviews are like that") gender activism comments, you don't think his other points are valid? .No, but it does make it unpleasant (at best) to read the review and try to take any actual constructive criticism from it to heart.
That's good advice for anyone who's doing a review or providing feedback. If you want the person you're talking to to listen and take your comments under advisement, do so without pissing them off. I know that reading hate-laced reviews like this pretty much makes me not only stop reading the review, but also makes me less likely to seek out other reviews. It damages the entire process of feedback, even for those who are providing legitimate reviews.
Don't be a jerk. You ruin things for everyone.
Er, James, you seem to have misattributed the quote - that passage wasn't of my authorship. This happened likely due to the fact that for some reason, my post ended up quoting the previous posts wrongly :)
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Er, James, you seem to have misattributed the quote - that passage wasn't of my authorship. This happened likely due to the fact that for some reason, my post ended up quoting the previous posts wrongly :)
Sorry about that; I adjusted the quote. The point stands, regardless of who said it.
We do still do pretty grim content now and then, but when we do, we'll drop in something akin to a "content warning"; see the relatively recent Nidal book as an example.Personally, I do hope that we can do a grim adventure or even an Adventure Path again at some point. We'll see, but the world is a different place in many ways than it was 15 years ago...
You know what's best for paizo sales-wise, but this illustrates my point. This is supposed to be fantasy escapism. The reason alot of us tread into the fantasy tabletop RPG world, like it or not it's sort of pandering to the real world.
For instance, imagine authors like Martin, Abercrombie, etc. writing fantasy. They didn't alter the controversial matter and even with the visceral HBO show, it took of way.... way....way further while still keeping said subject matter intact in today's world. It became a worldwide phenomenon. I'm glad they didn't go PG or family safe.Maybe we should tone down Conan the Barbarian, too much blood for today's world and all that. It could be Conan the Boxer instead (joke not snark).
Just because the world is different now (and you sometimes have to weigh every word depending on the person you are talking too), doesn't mean the escapism of this hobby needs to change. Imagine nerfing Pett's or Logue's style of modules....
never doing a slaver arc (AD&D slaver series was epic) if that's true.What qualifies a slaver arc? Age of Ashes has a multi-book war between the PCs and a major slaver group which I think goes pretty deep on that matter.
I meant something akin to the A1-A4 modules of old as a full AP.
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I meant something akin to the A1-A4 modules of old as a full AP.never doing a slaver arc (AD&D slaver series was epic) if that's true.What qualifies a slaver arc? Age of Ashes has a multi-book war between the PCs and a major slaver group which I think goes pretty deep on that matter.
Age of Ashes...
As for an entire adventure path where fight the slavers is the main plot from start to end, that's potentially one as well, but probably not anytime soon so as to avoid duplicating themes from Age of Ashes.
I meant something akin to the A1-A4 modules of old as a full AP.never doing a slaver arc (AD&D slaver series was epic) if that's true.What qualifies a slaver arc? Age of Ashes has a multi-book war between the PCs and a major slaver group which I think goes pretty deep on that matter.Age of Ashes...
** spoiler omitted **As for an entire adventure path where fight the slavers is the main plot from start to end, that's potentially one as well, but probably not anytime soon so as to avoid duplicating themes from Age of Ashes.
Again, I have not read beyond Book 1 which is the only PDF of the series that I bought. Book 1 turned me around from venturing further for the reasons above. Not trying to be a jerk either, James. It's just comments in a discussion forum.
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Again, I have not read beyond Book 1 which is the only PDF of the series that I bought. Book 1 turned me around from venturing further for the reasons above. Not trying to be a jerk either, James. It's just comments in a discussion forum.
No worries. Not everything has to be everyone's favorite. Just pointing out that whether or not you enjoy Age of Ashes, the element you seemed to be worried that we'd never do again is in fact something we just did, is all I was pointing out.
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For what it's worth - I think Return of the Runelords book 1 is the best start to an adventure ever.
Not because the story is the best (it's good - not the best) - but because the pacing, npcs, and treasure are.
Frankly my players have never had so much fun.
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Even besides the offensive comments, those reviews have tone that comes across as looking for things to complain about :P There is also bias in them where they clearly haven't read all the APs, but they keep claiming "I have seen this trend that paizo is doing x". Because I can confirm that all aps from 1e's have lots of really dark content even if they aren't as dark as Hook Mountain Massacre.(which is kinda hard because its one adventure that contains rape, necrophilia, incest and baby murder :P)
Whenever people claim that lately APs have been "softer", they never actually give examples besides one because they haven't read the other ones they claim to be part of a trend :P
I like him complaining "Carrion Crown could never be done today!" as if Carrion Crown isn't a fairly lighthearted and fun Hammer Horror romp. Admittedly book 4 exists, but "literally Innsmouth with all the rape and xenophobia metaphors" shouldn't have been printed in 2011 let alone 2020...
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Whenever people claim that lately APs have been "softer", they never actually give examples besides one because they haven't read the other ones they claim to be part of a trend :P
Mr. Jacob's said it himself a few posts up about paizo skewing towards the PG side of things. Even without the events in RotR in books 2 and 3, take the Goblin in the closet backstory in Burnt Offerings, read Hellknight Hill and compare it. Honestly, when was the last time you saw that level of grittiness.
I'd like to also point out that some of you are still raging about the reviewer, I just brought that review up for most of his other points about Hellknight Hill (non-gender biased) because I noticed them too. If you guys/gals want to make this about him, I'll bow out of this thread.
Tbh, I bought Hellknight Hill and a few other Pdfs for 2e. I have not read the other volumes of AoA or any reviews about them. After reading Hellknight Hill and a 3 hour Discord session with my players about 2E in general, we decided it wasn't for us and are keeping our options at 1E or the other brand's 5e.
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So you're basing your opinions of recent APs on one volume of one AP?
That's a pretty shaky foundation to say anything about anything in regards to 'trends' or 'several recent APs' or anything like that. Or to discard a whole edition of a game, for that matter.
As for dark content, well, Reign of Winter has everything from brutal child murder (and having to inform the child's murder) to Baba Yaga devouring her daughter's souls. You help Baba Yaga. It's pretty dark when examined.
That's not exactly 'recent' but it's a lot more so than RotRL or CotCt (both of which have some seriously dark s!~% in them, I'll agree).
For a more recent example, in AoA the, already mentioned, heavy references to slavery are notable. As is the mention of Velstracs and thus torture (albeit to a lesser degree). That's debatably less 'dark' but not a whole lot, IMO.
All of which argue that, even aside from DR's attitudes regarding women and other issues (which are abhorrent, and you shouldn't have mentioned him if you didn't want people to comment on them), his reviews are based more on his assumptions about other stuff Pzizo is doing than what they really are.
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You gotta take the bad with the good. 13 years ago Pathfinder was a tiny subset of a tiny hobby and the player base was virtually entirely 30+ male Americans who weren't exactly forthcoming about the fact that their beloved hobby is pretending to be an elf and rolling strange dice because RPGs weren't socially accepted then.
Today, RPGs are breaking into the mainstream, they're enjoyed by a much larger and diverse audience and are on the verge of becoming socially acceptable. This also means that things that could easily be published 13 yrs ago in a mainstream RPG are now found in more niche games, such as Lamentations of the Flame Princess or Shadow of the Demon Lord.
Bottom line - if you want to play a mainstream RPG in 2020, see the hobby grow, have more opportunities to play than just Dave's group and find people reacting to you declaring RPGs as your hobby with "cool, is that something like Critical Role?" instead of "oh, so you kind of never grew up, huh?", you need to accept some compromise as to the content.
And frankly, the goblin in the closet thing was tame. If you want really level of grittiness, the aforementioned LoFP, Kult or some of the more edgy corners of World of Darkness is where you find the real "please, don't read this after eating" stuff.
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And frankly, the goblin in the closet thing was tame. If you want really level of grittiness, the aforementioned LoFP, Kult or some of the more edgy corners of World of Darkness is where you find the real "please, don't read this after eating" stuff.
Not looking for anything that excessive. I just prefer a not losing adult themes. It's moot regardless at this point but thanks for the calmer tone of your response.
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So you're basing your opinions of recent APs on one volume of one AP?
That's a pretty shaky foundation to say anything about anything in regards to 'trends' or 'several recent APs' or anything like that. Or to discard a whole edition of a game, for that matter.
No to the former. I also didn't care for the premise of Reign of Winter flavor-wise despite the positive reviews, so I haven't read any of them.
As to the latter, it's not just Paizo's overall tonal shift that doesn't work for us. We combed through the new PH and there were a few things that we didn't care for. That's a tangent though and I won't bother here (or ever at this point, lol).| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So you're basing your opinions of recent APs on one volume of one AP?
That's a pretty shaky foundation to say anything about anything in regards to 'trends' or 'several recent APs' or anything like that. Or to discard a whole edition of a game, for that matter.
No to the former. I also didn't care for the premise of Reign of Winter flavor-wise despite the positive reviews, so I haven't read any of them.
As to the latter, it's not just Paizo's overall tonal shift that doesn't work for us. We combed through the new PH and there were a few things that we didn't care for. That's a tangent though and I won't bother here (or ever at this point, lol).
To each their own on what qualifies as adult themes. Off the top of my head, Age of Ashes contains:
-A heavy focus on slavers and their actions
-A scene in which the PCs might overhear a pair of rakshasas debating what food and drink pairs appropriately with human flesh
-A rakshasa who uses his opiate indulgence as a diversion
-The potential drowning deaths of dozens of innocents played out over the course of a combat
-A long-running eugenics experiment designed to lead to mass sacrifice
None of that reaches Graul-level ickiness, but I think stuff like the Grauls is best used sparingly. Even as it has become more mainstream, though, Pathfinder has retained plenty of adult themes throughout its adventures.
More importantly, in my opinion, modern adventure paths have progressed extensively when it comes to delivering a variety of interesting encounters and challenging play opportunities. There are far fewer trash encounters designed to just bump up a party's XP total before a certain checkpoint, and modern adventure paths have fewer points where I feel the story gets redundant.
I have a fond place in my heart for Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and even less-loved paths like Council of Thieves and Jade Regent. On the whole, though, I think the adventure path line has only gotten better at delivering a good adventure experience over the years.
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So you're basing your opinions of recent APs on one volume of one AP?
That's a pretty shaky foundation to say anything about anything in regards to 'trends' or 'several recent APs' or anything like that. Or to discard a whole edition of a game, for that matter.
No to the former. I also didn't care for the premise of Reign of Winter flavor-wise despite the positive reviews, so I haven't read any of them.
As to the latter, it's not just Paizo's overall tonal shift that doesn't work for us. We combed through the new PH and there were a few things that we didn't care for. That's a tangent though and I won't bother here (or ever at this point, lol).To each their own on what qualifies as adult themes. Off the top of my head, Age of Ashes contains:
** spoiler omitted **
None of that reaches Graul-level ickiness, but I think stuff like the Grauls is best used sparingly. Even as it has become more mainstream, though, Pathfinder has retained plenty of adult themes throughout its adventures.
All APs have us killing stuff (and other adult stuff), that was never the issue. Also, not everything needs Graul level insanity.
The tonal shift I'm talking about are scenes or backstory like CoCT's Gaedren Lamm's angle for example (read the betrayed trait iirc). Child slavery followed by being beaten and left for dead on a pile of garbage iirc the description, compared to todays cutesy, lovable goblins and the like.Also, James Jacobs already confirmed paizo shifting to more of a PG rating content, and I'm pretty sure he would know more about it than us here.
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The tonal shift I'm talking about are scenes or backstory like CoCT's Gaedren Lamm's angle for example (read the betrayed trait iirc). Child slavery followed by being beaten and left for dead on a pile of garbage iirc the description, compared to todays cutesy, lovable goblins and the like.
One of the AoA Backgrounds is literally 'you were born a slave in Cheliax'. So...actually probably worse than being forced to work for Lamm, at least if you know anything about slavery in Cheliax. Lamm is pretty awful, but not as compared to some aspects of Cheliax's institutionalized slavery.
Also, James Jacobs already confirmed paizo shifting to more of a PG rating content, and I'm pretty sure he would know more about it than us here.
Sure, but in many ways it's more a matter of emphasis than content. The above AoA Background doesn't go into detail on what happened while you were a slave, leaving that up to the player and GM so they can have it be whatever the group finds comfortable.
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One of the AoA Backgrounds is literally 'you were born a slave in Cheliax'. So...actually probably worse than being forced to work for Lamm, at least if you know anything about slavery in Cheliax. Lamm is pretty awful, but not as compared to some aspects of Cheliax's institutionalized slavery.
Beating a kid to near death and leaving him/her on a pile of garbage is worse IMHO but I get your point though. I just can't get past a lot of 2E mechanically and otherwise, the lighter cutesy stuff in Hellknight just puts me over the top (my lack of interest in the next two APs doesn't help either). To each, their own.
Appreciating the level-headed responses still, thanks.
For the others, sorry about bringing the Amazon review to light. While I don't subscribe to his more sensitive matters, I still agree with his other bullet points as pertaining to Hellknight Hill only.
People like him do exist and I'm too mired in my old crotchety age to give a rodent's butt about his other views, to me it's not worth the type of responses seen here. I don't trigger from that kind of stuff as easily as others I guess, life is too short.
I merely shared his experience with some of the other things he mentioned in his review about the module in my read through. Nothing more.
I should have just summarized some of the mentioned points and posted it here, though I'm almost positive someone would have checked the full review and post it here as Rysky did regardless.
Apologies to all for not thinking things through and seeming like a jerk about it.
Sunder
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I can confirm though that the Hellknight Hill being softer due to less murderous goblins isn't really indicative of 2e APs being less dark.
Extinction Curse's part two has several Celestial Menagerie members who have been in really f~&~ed up ways been forced to remain in the abusive circus. And it has npc who was groomed from teenager age to be big bad's consort and bodyguard :P
That is kind of f#@*ed upness nobody has mentioned because I think it is missed by most people only because its easy to miss the one paragraph in larger book :p
That or I've interpreted it as much worse than what the writer intended, but I don't really see why it otherwise specified that she convinced him to leave with her to circus as teenager and then seduced him afterwards if its supposed to be "just" about charming a handsome goody two shoe :p Like text sounds like he has been with circus among some time and they are still young so I guess technically he could have joined as 18 year old, but I think pointing out character being young adult and having been teenager when they joined and not intending the emphasis on youngness to sound skeevy is weird :P
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I don't understand how a few smiling goblins in book one makes a six book adventure arc involving slavers and genocidal dragons "soft" or "lighter in tone".
I thought it was dark enough for what it was.
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I don't understand how a few smiling goblins in book one makes a six book adventure arc involving slavers and genocidal dragons "soft" or "lighter in tone".
I thought it was dark enough for what it was.
If you want to find something, APs are rich enough that you’ll find it.
I daresay if you picked any theme (French nihilist philosophers, Marxist rhetoric, Christian allegory....doesn’t matter) someone with suitable energy and commitment to the cause would be able to find it in Rise of the Runelords and declare it wasn’t there in Age of Ashes (and probably vice versa, to be frank).
I’ve never understood the point in relentlessly reviewing something you don’t like, over and over.....just stop buying it. *shrug*
The tonal shift I'm talking about are scenes or backstory like CoCT's Gaedren Lamm's angle for example (read the betrayed trait iirc). Child slavery followed by being beaten and left for dead on a pile of garbage iirc the description, compared to todays cutesy, lovable goblins and the like.One of the AoA Backgrounds is literally 'you were born a slave in Cheliax'. So...actually probably worse than being forced to work for Lamm, at least if you know anything about slavery in Cheliax. Lamm is pretty awful, but not as compared to some aspects of Cheliax's institutionalized slavery.
Also, James Jacobs already confirmed paizo shifting to more of a PG rating content, and I'm pretty sure he would know more about it than us here.Sure, but in many ways it's more a matter of emphasis than content. The above AoA Background doesn't go into detail on what happened while you were a slave, leaving that up to the player and GM so they can have it be whatever the group finds comfortable.
It does seem that it has become harder to engage in some good old fashioned Thrune bashing. I mean, going after hellknights and freeing the halfling slaves would make for a good session but now we have 'Not all Hellknights are bad' (LN,LG) So trampling over a bunch of LN HKs might lead to 'hilarity' with the PCs getting in trouble for unsanctioned raiding and arrest attempts for murdering agents of THE LAW
"I just wanted to stab Hellknights and free slaves, now I've been hung out to dry because I didn't clear it with Andoria beforehand!'
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It does seem that it has become harder to engage in some good old fashioned Thrune bashing. I mean, going after hellknights and freeing the halfling slaves would make for a good session but now we have 'Not all Hellknights are bad' (LN,LG) So trampling over a bunch of LN HKs might lead to 'hilarity' with the PCs getting in trouble for unsanctioned raiding and arrest attempts for murdering agents of THE LAW
"I just wanted to stab Hellknights and free slaves, now I've been hung out to dry because I didn't clear it with Andoria beforehand!'
Uh...this has literally always been true. Hellknights were a LN organization from the first day they were created.
Hellknights are also not affiliated with the House of Thrune. So you can Thrune bash as much as you like, and always could.
It’s one of the inconsistencies in the alignment system really. Although good-evil are supposed to mirror the morals of the real world, the nine-box classification system really doesn’t work very well as a model of real world ethics-morality.
A LN person who believes in strictly enforcing the law with no exceptions (such as many Hellknights) will support slavery where that is legal - a clearly evil position to take.
In actual fact “evil” and “good” as defined in game are not the same thing as those words used in the real world. I think it’s the biggest cause of alignment arguments - people taking the game terms then framing arguments based on real-world moral insights (which are very poorly modelled by the nine-box system) and translating their conclusions back into how the game “should” work.
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On the "softer" tangent... Shoonies!
Is this really a thing? Puppy People? I know April 1st is coming but the blog is kind of early.
I want to play a fuzzy red thing from Alpha Centuri!