Second edition starter box.

[MtlJ1991]

Will there be a second edition starter box? I'm a massive fan of the first, although I don't have a copy myself, I'm looking at switching over to PF2 later this year and would love to know if there will be another similar product.

[Franz Lunzer]

There was talk that, with Pathfinder second edition being easier to learn, there would be no need for a beginners box.
No such product has been announced at PaizoCon (to my knowledge).

[MtlJ1991]

Franz Lunzer wrote:

There was talk that, with Pathfinder second edition being easier to learn, there would be no need for a beginners box.

No such product has been announced at PaizoCon (to my knowledge).

That's a shame! Even with an easier to learn system, the smaller rule book, counters and starter encounter is always a great intro for new players.

[WatersLethe]

I do believe that PF2 will be easy enough to pick up that a beginner box isn't necessary as an instructive exercise.

A starter box would probably sell well though if it had minis, some rules cheat sheets, some pregen characters, a quick adventure, and some maps.

I've always been a bit skeptical of the simplified approach the other beginner boxes took, as in my experience unlearning the way things work is harder than pushing through and learning the full blown rules. In PF2's case, I highly doubt there's a need for a pared down ruleset.

[Mantriel]

If I remember it correctly, Eric Mona hinted it at one of the Twitch streams that they will release "obvious products" as soon as possible. I guess they will wait half a year to collect all of the initial player feedback before they release a box "which is usually not profitable" (unlike books).

[michaelane]

They just released a Starfinder Beginner Box which you can be pretty sure built on things they learned from the Pathfinder 1e Beginner Box. It has been roughly 22 months since the Starfinder release.

Paizo.com wrote:

Heroes' Handbook
Get started with everything you need to know to create and play your new character, from classes and themes to alien ancestry, general rules, plus a short solo adventure.

Game Master’s Guide
A wondrous galaxy is at your fingertips, full of new worlds and alien adversaries. Learn how to run encounters in the Steel Talon's Lair adventure, and gain insight into how to create your new world and engage your players in the story.

Accessories
Also included in the box are: a set of seven polyhedral dice, 80 pawns depicting diverse heroes and aliens, 24 pawn bases, six pregenerated and six blank character sheets, six player aid cards for quick reference, and a double-sided Flip-Mat.

Sounds like a pretty viable product for 2e even if 2e is easy for beginners to pick up.

I think we'll see one eventually, but I would agree that they'll probably give it some time for feedback on both 2e itself and the Starfinder box before planning one for 2e.

[CrystalSeas]

I'm expecting one eventually, but on the time scale of the Starfinder product: a couple years after the full game came out with experience and thousands of hours of play to shape the simplifications.

[Logan Bonner]

Franz Lunzer wrote:

There was talk that, with Pathfinder second edition being easier to learn, there would be no need for a beginners box.

No such product has been announced at PaizoCon (to my knowledge).

I don't believe we've said there's no need for a Beginner Box, but that there's no need for the Beginner Box to not be fully compatible with the full game.

[Mark Seifter]

Yep! Just imagine how cool it would be to take your Beginner Box character, no need for a conversion, and be ready to go play in a normal PF2 game. We think that would be really cool too!

[Ron Lundeen]

michaelane wrote:

They just released a Starfinder Beginner Box which you can be pretty sure built on things they learned from the Pathfinder 1e Beginner Box. It has been roughly 22 months since the Starfinder release.

Paizo.com wrote:

Heroes' Handbook
Get started with everything you need to know to create and play your new character, from classes and themes to alien ancestry, general rules, plus a short solo adventure.

Game Master’s Guide
A wondrous galaxy is at your fingertips, full of new worlds and alien adversaries. Learn how to run encounters in the Steel Talon's Lair adventure, and gain insight into how to create your new world and engage your players in the story.

Accessories
Also included in the box are: a set of seven polyhedral dice, 80 pawns depicting diverse heroes and aliens, 24 pawn bases, six pregenerated and six blank character sheets, six player aid cards for quick reference, and a double-sided Flip-Mat.

Sounds like a pretty viable product for 2e even if 2e is easy for beginners to pick up.

I think we'll see one eventually, but I would agree that they'll probably give it some time for feedback on both 2e itself and the Starfinder box before planning one for 2e.

I'd be willing to bet that a new Pathfinder Beginner Box, like the Starfinder Beginner Box, wouldn't include the solarian class or starship combat. :-)

[ChibiNyan]

I do know most people get into 5e from their Starter Box thing (Which was released before the full game somehow!) since it gives them character sheets, dice and a beginner-tier adventure. Lost Mine of Phandelver is probably the most played 5E module BY FAR!!

Also I consider that Box to SUCK compared to the Paizo ones which include pawns, bases, colored maps, mats and pregens.

This product is gonna be important to get new people into PF2.

[Franz Lunzer]

Logan Bonner wrote:

Franz Lunzer wrote:

There was talk that, with Pathfinder second edition being easier to learn, there would be no need for a beginners box.

No such product has been announced at PaizoCon (to my knowledge).

I don't believe we've said there's no need for a Beginner Box, but that there's no need for the Beginner Box to not be fully compatible with the full game.

Ah, I missunderstood that then. Sorry about that.

[Biztak]

So many Devs weighing in has made me suspicious

[xris]

ChibiNyan wrote:

I do know most people get into 5e from their Starter Box thing (Which was released before the full game somehow!) since it gives them character sheets, dice and a beginner-tier adventure. Lost Mine of Phandelver is probably the most played 5E module BY FAR!!

Also I consider that Box to SUCK compared to the Paizo ones which include pawns, bases, colored maps, mats and pregens.

This product is gonna be important to get new people into PF2.

I would agree.

The only item in the 5e box that was superior than either the Pathfinder or Starfinder Beginner box was the adventure/mini-campaign Lost Mines of Phandelver.

Compared to the intro scenario provided in the Paizo Beginner Boxes (which was basically the same scenario for both Pathfinder and Starfinder), the 5e adventure was a complete mini-campaign (and a good one at that). It wasn't just a "how to play" introduction that's in the Paizo products.

Nearly everything else in the Paizo Beginner Boxes are vastly superior to the 5e product. As you say, it contains Pawns and bases, a Battle Mat, wonderful Pre-generated Character Sheets and so on.

Mind, it would be nice if the PF2 Beginner Box didn't introduce a "simplified" rules version this time. While the entirety of the rules can't be included, I would still prefer to see the full game explained, not a cut-back simplified version. It doesn't have to include all the classes, races, spells, etc, but I would prefer to see it cover the same game as the full version of PF2.

[Ramanujan]

This question came up fairly early on in the playtest ... it might have been in a talk by Jason Bulmahn at UKGE last year. My understanding was that they definitely wanted to do it. But that they wanted to do it really well, and that requires giving PF2 time, so that they can get substantial real data on where new players struggle, and what the best ways to teach them are.

Like others posting here I would imagine Paizo would like for one to be released in very roughly the same amount of time as they took to release the Starfinder one, but that they wont be able to commit to anything yet.

[Rysky]

Biztak wrote:

So many Devs weighing in has made me suspicious

They're giving the whole forums thing another go after haven been driven out by 1e's torches and pitchforks and tomatoes.

[Franz Lunzer]

xris wrote:

Mind, it would be nice if the PF2 Beginner Box didn't introduce a "simplified" rules version this time. While the entirety of the rules can't be included, I would still prefer to see the full game explained, not a cut-back simplified version. It doesn't have to include all the classes, races, spells, etc, but I would prefer to see it cover the same game as the full version of PF2.

It would be really interesting to know, how much of the 640 pages from the core rulebook can be taken out by stripping the content down to levels 1 through 4 or maybe 5.

No spells higher than 3rd circle, no items, class-, general-, skill-feats for those upper 15 levels and so on.
The Age of Lost Omens doesn't need to be introduced, the ancestries and supplemental stuff can be reduced as well, even the proficiencies don't need the upper reaches (certainly not legendary).

The playing the game chapter can't be cut as much, but with a bit less art, getting the tome below 160 pages seems do-able.
The PF1 Beginners Box had about 160 pages split in 64 for players, and 96 for the GM, that packed monsters as well.

[Enlight_Bystand]

Franz Lunzer wrote:

xris wrote:

Mind, it would be nice if the PF2 Beginner Box didn't introduce a "simplified" rules version this time. While the entirety of the rules can't be included, I would still prefer to see the full game explained, not a cut-back simplified version. It doesn't have to include all the classes, races, spells, etc, but I would prefer to see it cover the same game as the full version of PF2.

It would be really interesting to know, how much of the 640 pages from the core rulebook can be taken out by stripping the content down to levels 1 through 4 or maybe 5.

No spells higher than 3rd circle, no items, class-, general-, skill-feats for those upper 15 levels and so on.
The Age of Lost Omens doesn't need to be introduced, the ancestries and supplemental stuff can be reduced as well, even the proficiencies don't need the upper reaches (certainly not legendary).

The playing the game chapter can't be cut as much, but with a bit less art, getting the tome below 160 pages seems do-able.
The PF1 Beginners Box had about 160 pages split in 64 for players, and 96 for the GM, that packed monsters as well.

I would expect them to restrict themselves to 4-6 classes as well, which clears a decent amount further.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

I would probably go the 5e route but with a two sided mat. One being a blank battle map, the other being a map of the region.

Some pawns

5 character pregens & 1 set of pre printed blank character sheets.

And include appropriate but liimited leveling choices for each player as well as a 1-4 adventure.

The pawns and mat being the least important but "nice to have" elements.

Direct people to Archives of Nethys and the CRB if they want to make their own characters.

The important element being, it is for new people. New people are generally more interested in a pick up and play experience, having the option for people who want to do more is there but doesn't need to be in the book.