Min dip, maximum accuracy

[ekibus]

Since my shaman thread sort of stalled out and I have two weeks to figure this out, I decided to see if I can get a occultist to work. My issue is with the exception of adding bane there is no way to get the accuracy up on the class So plan is to go haunt collector occultist and gonna rely on the bow. Implements are necromancy and trans to start.

So that will add a second issue besides accuracy...archery feats..namely if I go straight occultist I wont see rapid shot until level 5. So my thought is to take a 3 level dip into weapon specialist fighter..basically it would give me the fighter bab and I would take precise shot at level 2 and weapon focus longbow finally at level 3 I would get weapon training..So all said at level 5 I would have 2 levels occultist and 3 fighter and assuming a +1 composite bow I would be with rapid shot at +11/+11 and bow would be 1d8+7. So not sure how I feel about taking the dive but would anyone have a better idea?

[avr]

Weapon master fighter is solid for what it does but three levels is a fair bit. Savage technologist barbarian 1 for +4 Str and Dex as a free action (albeit limited in rounds/day), and one level in something with a relevant bonus feat (fighter 1 if nothing else) gives you pretty good bonuses while saving a level.

Also note that once you have a +1 bow, legacy weapon can add the training property to give you one more archery feat.

[Marina, Servant of Wadjet]

Zen archers are also the best, if you want to look into mage armor and/or have good point buy, but probably better to use armor. If you are going pure archer, yeah you want a lot of feats, but you could take 2 in slayer/ranger just to grab rapid.
Myself I favor melee occultist, with transmutation str and legacy weapon or other buff spells.

[Meirril]

I'd recommend going with a melee build. Transmutation implement allows for an easy to access size increase. Aim to start with a 20 str, 16 int and with the early +2 str from transmutation plus Growth you should be an absolute brute.

Best thing is no need for any dips so you don't fall behind. Everything about occultist is level based so taking a dip makes your occultist abilities less impressive as they fall behind what expected magic items for the level would be able to do.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Use an Orc Hornbow.

A 1 level dip in Ranger will let you use a Wand of Gravity Bow.

A 3 level dip in the Flame Dance Bard Archetype will give you the ability to let you and all your allies see through Fire and Smoke. So then you get yourself an Eversmoking Bottle or a Wand of Pyrotechnics, which you can use to produce smoke that will make all your opponents Blind. So then you start doing Sneak Attack Damage.

Be a Grenadier Alchemist and take the Explosive Missile Discovery. Exploding Arrows are cool.

[Firebug]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Use an Orc Hornbow.

A 1 level dip in Ranger will let you use a Wand of Gravity Bow.

Gravity Bow is on the Occultist spell list already. Specifically Transmutation which he should be taking anyway.

You could drop the Haunt Collector bit and actually take a real level of Medium. The Spirit Surge a couple times per day will help your misses, and it will increase your static damage by more than Haunt Collector does, especially if you take Spirit Focus and the Spirit-bonded armor to increase your Spirit Bonus to +3. Medium could also get you proficiency in the Orc Hornbow for free, and if you instead took Battle Host you would get a free masterwork version and a bonus feat at 4.
It still gets you Rapid Shot at 5, but you'll have more static damage until then. You will be down a couple implement schools however.

In your example, +11/+11 to hit, you have what: 4 BAB, 1 Weapon Training, +1 enchantment, 1 PBS, -2 Rapid Shot = 5 ... so 22 dex? (or 20 with small size and I suppose you added +2 dex from the resonant power). 1d8+7 damage: 2 seance, 1 PBS, 1 enchantment, 1 Weapon Training... so 14 str?

With the same stats the Battle Host/Medium would be at
+12/+12 to hit (3 bab, 1 PBS, 3 Spirit Bonus, +1 Enchantment, -2 rapid shot, 6 dex) but 2d6+9 damage isn't bad (+1 enchantment, 1 PBS, 5 Spirit+Seance, 2 str). Average 16 damage vs 11.5 on your example. Pretty close, but the Battle Host will also have 2nd level spells(though fewer schools). And granted, the Battle Host example has 7550gp in armor (say +1 Spirit-Bonded Breastplate) and 3k (presumably +1 adaptive bow) in the weapon.

[Slim Jim]

It should be noted that Orc Hornbows do have some limitations, aside from the necessity of securing proficiency: There's the shorter range consideration, which normally isn't a problem, but also that the bow is made of horn, not wood, and thus one's GM might decline special materials options normally open to composite longbows.

[ekibus]

Hmm accuracy vs more damage... Yeah the orc hornbow would be nice (not sure if it is pfs legal) but again trying to get another feat feels like I'm squeezing a rock. With gravity bow it would do what 3d6? Add in a typical bane and yeah each arrow would hurt.

@Avr Again Savage technologist is a major dip that would increase accuracy and damage for so many rounds per day. Not bad but I really feel that more arrows would be better. Also not sure if it is legal.

@Marina.. zen archer can be nice but my wisdom is a measly 10. Also no mage armor unless I get a wand. Not bad but Not a huge boost. With 2 levels of ranger/slayer I could get the rapid shot...but it is two levels to get it. Fighter is 3 but I can get weapon training along with 2 feats (one of course rapid shot)

@Meirril..yeah I could go melee but asking advice on ranged accuracy so kinda beside the point.

@Scott Wilhelm Luckily I dont need the one level of ranger for gravity bow since I already get it. Honestly I forgot about Grenadier Alchemist and the Explosive Missile Discovery...might have to revisit it.

Sorry need to go back in to work

[ekibus]

Sorry Firebug took awhile to go through everything and pc rebooted which meant I lost the build I was working on. (Darn me not saving!!) So working with your build, first I found out the spirit bonded armor is not allowed (which stinks) Perhaps I'm missing something but with the feat I see a spirit bonus..but only applies to damage (believe the +1 untyped is from the champion) So I would be +10/+10 2d6+7 but the medium would give me the exotic hornbow and 2nd level spells. I would have to read up on medium not sure how spirit surge works.

So the +11/+11 is +5 dex, +1 weapon focus, +1 enhancement, +4 bab, +1 point blank and +1 weapon training. Weapon training is important since I can later on get gloves of dueling for another +2 hit and damage. But as you pointed out I would lose spellcasting for a bit, which reminds me, anyone know if the trait magical knack would work for occultist..I would hate to lose pragmatic activator but need to ask.

I do need to see if orc hornbow is pfs legal..I am taking a half elf so instead of skill focus umd I could take the exotic weapon prof

[River of Sticks]

Not sure if it will fit your concept, but if you went straight Occultist and went with the Trappings of the Warrior panoply, you can get effectively Full BAB, adding an additional attack and more accuracy. If it's not set in stone, I would go with a half elf panoply savant.
Edit: Unless you have a really specific reason to go with a 2 level or less dip, I would not dip at all. Fighter weapon training is a 5 level dip.. that's a lot to dip on a caster class, especially for PFS.

[Ferious Thune]

Orc Hornbow is not PFS legal with the exception of a specific item that appears on a chronicle sheet.

[ekibus]

@Ferious That stinks, was starting to get my hopes up on the bow.

@River Trapping of warrior is sadly not allowed, otherwise I would jump on it in a heartbeat. The fighter archetype weapon master gets weapon training in a specific weapon at level 3. It is a major dip, which is my main concern about going that deep

[Firebug]

Yeah, you should have stated PFS legal in the OP. That cuts out the Panoply, Spirit-Bonded, and Hornbow.

The Spirit Focus feat increases your spirit bonus by 1 for a specific spirit. In this case Champion. For Champion your spirit bonus increases more than just damage. The Seance bonus is just damage.

Champion wrote:

Champion: Spirit Bonus: When you channel a champion, your spirit bonus applies on attack rolls, non-spell damage rolls, Strength checks, Strength-based skill checks, and Fortitude saves.

Seance Boon: You gain a +2 bonus on all non-spell damage rolls.

Bolded the important ones.

Spirit Surge works like this: You attack and rolled a 10 on the die. You have a +11 bonus to hit, you report to the GM that your attack is a 21.
The GM looks at the creature's stat block and tells you that you miss.
You think to yourself that you rolled pretty decent, so you think that you only missed by a couple so you declare that you are going to use Spirit Surge (as a no action) gain 1 influence and roll 1d6 and add it to your attack that just missed. You roll a 2 and report to the GM again that your previous attack roll was actually a 23 not a 21.
The GM tells you that you hit and you proceed to damage.
If your influence is 3 or greater you take a -2 to Initiative, -Spirit Bonus to Int based checks and Caster Level (and can't benefit from Magical Knack anymore), but gain a +4 untyped bonus vs possession and a +2 untyped bonus against mind affecting that isn't possession.
If your influence is 5 or greater, your character is now a NPC under the GMs control.

I find that its easiest to just think of Spirit Surge as 2/day or 4/day if you channel a lesser version of Champion if you don't need the proficiencies. This still gives you a couple uses if you really need it, like you identified the spell being cast at you that requires a fortitude save as phantasmal killer and you decide that not dying is worth the penalties.

Magical Knack does work for Occultist in the general case, until Champion has 3 or more influence.

For PFS, straight Occultist will do fine. You have a lot of abilities at your fingertips and Bane(anything) picks up the slack really well.
Its nice to have bigger numbers off the bat, but fighter/medium dips don't really age well compared to straight Occultist. My Kitsune Swashbuckler Fox Shape Occultist eventually just retrained to pure Occultist at 12. More focus is better and Shadow Beast can be a literal life saver in modules. Yeah that illusion? Don't think to hard on how its healing you/raising you from the dead.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Ferious Thune wrote:

Orc Hornbow is not PFS legal with the exception of a specific item that appears on a chronicle sheet.

Too bad, oh well, that simplifies some of my builds!

[River of Sticks]

ekibus wrote:

@Ferious That stinks, was starting to get my hopes up on the bow.

@River Trapping of warrior is sadly not allowed, otherwise I would jump on it in a heartbeat. The fighter archetype weapon master gets weapon training in a specific weapon at level 3. It is a major dip, which is my main concern about going that deep

Really? Wow. I don't play PFS, but that would be a major letdown for me if I did..

[ekibus]

Oh I agree, Been upset about trapping off warrior since it came out. Hoped it was a mistake but been awhile now.

I'm debating on the one level at 2 of fighter so i can get rapid shot by 3 and then retain out of it at 5. Tempted to go human over half elf but think that would be a mistake