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Is it just me or is this module too top heavy with magic loot?
Last session the party beat up three sealbreaker knights, all of whom had +1 full plate, a +1 heavy steel shield and a +1 longsword. That's over 6,000gp of loot per knight. Then the otyughs gave them glove of storing, which contained a scabbard of keen edges, a further 16,000gp worth.
Earlier they were gifted a +2 halberd by Ranton Gandry, Brunna gave them a +2 shield. They beat Kilibrandt and got her +1 shadow studded leather, +1 composite bow, belt of dex +4, and cloak of resistance +2, along with the gear from her hirelings.
And that's not even mentioning the multitude of potions, wands, talismans, etc they keep picking up.
I ran it with Alternative Bonus Progression. Didn't even notice.
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Is it just me or is this module too top heavy with magic loot?
Last session the party beat up three sealbreaker knights, all of whom had +1 full plate, a +1 heavy steel shield and a +1 longsword. That's over 6,000gp of loot per knight. Then the otyughs gave them glove of storing, which contained a scabbard of keen edges, a further 16,000gp worth.
Earlier they were gifted a +2 halberd by Ranton Gandry, Brunna gave them a +2 shield. They beat Kilibrandt and got her +1 shadow studded leather, +1 composite bow, belt of dex +4, and cloak of resistance +2, along with the gear from her hirelings.
And that's not even mentioning the multitude of potions, wands, talismans, etc they keep picking up.
I would suggest reading the whole module, and the beginning of the next one, there is usually a reason for increased loot.
I would suggest reading the whole module, and the beginning of the next one, there is usually a reason for increased loot.
That makes sense. I have actually read the entire adventure path, but to get an idea of themes, plots etc, I didn't pay particular attention to individual encounters or treasure.
BTW for those who've GM'd it, how deep did you make the lake? The module doesn't give a depth and it's likely Cleverquill will use his Awesome Blow to knock a PC off the bridge. And my party's frontline fighter is now wearing full plate and has a tower shield strapped to his arm...
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I would suggest reading the whole module, and the beginning of the next one, there is usually a reason for increased loot.That makes sense. I have actually read the entire adventure path, but to get an idea of themes, plots etc, I didn't pay particular attention to individual encounters or treasure.
BTW for those who've GM'd it, how deep did you make the lake? The module doesn't give a depth and it's likely Cleverquill will use his Awesome Blow to knock a PC off the bridge. And my party's frontline fighter is now wearing full plate and has a tower shield strapped to his arm...
then i'd definitely make it deep enough to drown in. ;-)
Update on the way station situation: I ran the encounter today and piled all three into one fight that all happened outside on the battlements/in the air.
I had the Wights drop barrels of oil down on the party at the portcullis and set them alight in round 1, creating a bunch of fiery terrain and some constant fire damage on the Paladin who decided to tank the fire damage each round and keep fighting rather tha put it out (valid tactic but it did ramp up those d6s of burn). Then they started hurling orcish throwing axes down at them from on high. Paladin got up on the battlements with a spider climb potion and Wizard cast Fly on the Swashbuckler so they got up there too.
Okagu joined the Wight Fight on the battlements in round 3, and I gave Usundra a scroll of Fly to give her some better maneuvrability outside - she flew out and was gonna go for the Wizard or Cleric when the Swashbuckler flew off to intercept her, giving her a prime target for Slay Living. That obol energy resist is doing work.
Paladin slew Okagu in like 1 round because holy hells is he buff, dealt 108 points of damage with 2 crits with a smite evil flaming keen falchion. Usundra took a Wizard Fireball and a couple Bursts of Radiance from the Cleric, then the Swashbuckler finished her off.
Overall, it all felt much more interesting and dynamic without having to stuff it all inside those little rooms imo.
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Update on the way station situation: I ran the encounter today and piled all three into one fight that all happened outside on the battlements/in the air.
I had the Wights drop barrels of oil down on the party at the portcullis and set them alight in round 1, creating a bunch of fiery terrain and some constant fire damage on the Paladin who decided to tank the fire damage each round and keep fighting rather tha put it out (valid tactic but it did ramp up those d6s of burn). Then they started hurling orcish throwing axes down at them from on high. Paladin got up on the battlements with a spider climb potion and Wizard cast Fly on the Swashbuckler so they got up there too.
Okagu joined the Wight Fight on the battlements in round 3, and I gave Usundra a scroll of Fly to give her some better maneuvrability outside - she flew out and was gonna go for the Wizard or Cleric when the Swashbuckler flew off to intercept her, giving her a prime target for Slay Living. That obol energy resist is doing work.
Paladin slew Okagu in like 1 round because holy hells is he buff, dealt 108 points of damage with 2 crits with a smite evil flaming keen falchion. Usundra took a Wizard Fireball and a couple Bursts of Radiance from the Cleric, then the Swashbuckler finished her off.
Overall, it all felt much more interesting and dynamic without having to stuff it all inside those little rooms imo.
awesome!
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More about NPCs making choices that work against their own interests...
Why the heck did Gildais tell Killibrandt to leave one piece of the Shattered Shield in place?
Gildais should have taken them all...and then *just before* it was time to blow up Vigil placed one piece in the optimal location to blow up the Great Seal.
Having Killibrandt do it doesn't help Gildais's cause...and just leaves a clue trail in existence, and Gildais should be smart enough to not do that.
(I am going to have Gildais off screen tell Yosiduin just before the start of Part 3 that there's one piece of the Shield still in Vigil. This is the justification that Gildais gives Yosiduin for why the Seal Breakers can stop looking for the Great Seal. And I'm going to have Yosiduin impulsively monolog this to the PCs during their confrontation. Then the PCs can attempt to rush out of the sewers to stop it...and as they're rushing they will feel the sewer walls tremble like an earthquake. They're too late. Moments later they will be overcome with psychic energy via their obols when Tar-Baphon blows up Gallowspire and is actually released. This will force the PCs to have a rest before "A Grim Dawn.")
My guess is that the final seal - the one that the Whispering Way can't find, is suspected to be in the castle of Vigil. As such, leaving a piece of the Shattered Shield in the castle - whose power is not understood by even Tar Baphon - is the best bet to destroy the seal.
Remember - destroying the Knights is only secondary to breaking the seals. It's a side benefit.
Why the heck did Gildais tell Killibrandt to leave one piece of the Shattered Shield in place?
I think the Reliquary was an optimal place for it - I think the Seal was right under Watcher's Tor, after all, and blowing it up there seemed to do the job! And since no one was looking for missing shards anyway, why risk taking it out only to put it back later, right?
But I'm also adding in that one of the actual shards being there was integral to disguising that the others had been removed. I don't think it goes into a lot of detail exactly what enchantments are placed on the replicas to make them detect as exactly the same item as the missing shards, so perhaps it's sort of copying the aura of the true piece. Even if not, if someone was to cast a Locate Object "Shard of the Shield of Arnisant", it'd show one right where you'd expect it.
Update: Just ran the Brunna's Quality Shields encounter and....
...they've taken Dondun Daradun into custody for interrogation.
The moment I showed him visible in the alleyway the wizard cast Black Tentacles. He dispelled the first but didn't get far before the second one got him too. Then the rest of the PCs chased him down (except one who stayed behind to help Rolf. I even had Killibrandt pop up and start shooting down the alley. On the fly I figured I'd swap Dondun's scroll for a Teleport instead, meaning if he could just get a moment to use the scroll without a super high Concentration check, he'd be outta there, but no dice.
I had Killibrandt scarper once Dondun was knocked out, so I'm thinking she might come back for a jailbreak attempt instead of an alley ambush - we'll see how the land lies.
LOL, the best laid plans of mice and GMs etc etc.
You could have Kilibrandt as the wise crow who gets kidnapped by the seal breakers and taken to the sewers? Or if you wanted to keep her as the ambusher, simply have the party find the bodies of two wise crows in the storefront, instead of three.
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Update: Just ran the Brunna's Quality Shields encounter and....
...they've taken Dondun Daradun into custody for interrogation.
The moment I showed him visible in the alleyway the wizard cast Black Tentacles. He dispelled the first but didn't get far before the second one got him too. Then the rest of the PCs chased him down (except one who stayed behind to help Rolf. I even had Killibrandt pop up and start shooting down the alley. On the fly I figured I'd swap Dondun's scroll for a Teleport instead, meaning if he could just get a moment to use the scroll without a super high Concentration check, he'd be outta there, but no dice.
I had Killibrandt scarper once Dondun was knocked out, so I'm thinking she might come back for a jailbreak attempt instead of an alley ambush - we'll see how the land lies.
Killibrandt escaped from my PCs as well... I didn't like the draugr fight, so I had her take her revenge on the party as Vigil is being destroyed: with all out GNOME WARFARE.
Grabbed like 5 other gnome NPCs from AONPRD and had them ambush the party... just before a host of undead monsters arrived. It was a lot of fun. Certainly not something that the players were expecting.
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LOL, the best laid plans of mice and GMs etc etc.
You could have Kilibrandt as the wise crow who gets kidnapped by the seal breakers and taken to the sewers? Or if you wanted to keep her as the ambusher, simply have the party find the bodies of two wise crows in the storefront, instead of three.
I like the idea of having her be the kidnapped one! At this point I'll see how it all plays out, keep a few plans open just in case. I also have another NPC that could be a good kidnappee - I made a doppleganger worshipper of Yog-Sothoth who acts as a creepy information broker and takes pay in secrets using at-will detect thoughts, whom the Crows had paid to let them know if they ever found out someone in the city was looking for them. The Wizard went to them for information, and in turn they let the Crows know about the PCs (which is how they found out so fast).
I also set Usundra aside from the Crows (for reasons) so there's space for a sixth unlocated Crow if I need one.
Also loving the idea of some gnome warfare, maybe using some of the Mortic Gnome stats if it's right after the blast.
My party is finding the Redoubt a bit easy. They had a mild scare against the Red Queen Guardians, got annoyed by the Haunts, talked their way past the Sump Steward and the Geist, breezed past Cleverquill, before entering the main lair via the tower into area G16.
Despite what the module said, I had the four seal breaker knights in G15 overhear the fight with Evark Nox and charge into the fray. They were followed a round later by Roscaso and even then the fight was fairly one-sided. Two of my party went down unconscious but the outcome was never in doubt: there were two undamaged spellcasters at the end, hurling blast-em spells at the bad guys from range.
I'm going to have to beef up the final encounter with Yosiduin. I'm toying with the idea of having Dondun Daradun betray them at an opportune time, or giving Yosiduin some extra henchmen. Decisions, decisions...
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My party is finding the Redoubt a bit easy. They had a mild scare against the Red Queen Guardians, got annoyed by the Haunts, talked their way past the Sump Steward and the Geist, breezed past Cleverquill, before entering the main lair via the tower into area G16.
Despite what the module said, I had the four seal breaker knights in G15 overhear the fight with Evark Nox and charge into the fray. They were followed a round later by Roscaso and even then the fight was fairly one-sided. Two of my party went down unconscious but the outcome was never in doubt: there were two undamaged spellcasters at the end, hurling blast-em spells at the bad guys from range.
I'm going to have to beef up the final encounter with Yosiduin. I'm toying with the idea of having Dondun Daradun betray them at an opportune time, or giving Yosiduin some extra henchmen. Decisions, decisions...
What I did was when the Radiant Fire exploded [and of course, it had to explode right after Round 1] that my guys all had to roll Fortitude saves [forget what I assigned the DC].
If they passed, they were shaken for that # of rounds, as their obols vibrated within them - if they failed they were stunned for a round on top of that.
When we ran it, only 3 of the PCs had obol shards... she was the swashbuckler-type, and on Round 1 had leapt ahead into the fray... she of course had to get an obol at some point, she of course, a fragment of the Radiant Fire blasted through the roof of the cavern, hit her for a little bit of damage, but she had to make the saving throw, and of course miss Dexy couldn't pass a fortitude save and ended up surrounded and helpless...
It turned out to be a pretty good fight.
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After I read that the Seal-Breaker Knights had symbols of skulls on their armor and shields, I decided to have a bit of fun. When the scout got a good listen check at a door behind which were some knights, I had him overhear a conversation where the knights were discussing the skulls and trying to work out whether or not they were the baddies.
For those who don't get the reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY
My party had the big showdown with Yosiduin. As my party is 6 PCs I beefed up the encounter by throwing in a wraith, mostly because its Lifesense ability annoyed those players who rely on stealth and invisibility. I also tweaked Yosiduin's cruelties, giving him the curse one because it's so much nastier than the others.
Alas, the fight was fairly one sided. The cleric got off a shackle spell on Yosiduin early on and he spent the rest of the fight with his hands manacled behind his back. So all he could use was his corrupting touch attacks, with bestow curse thrown in; he managed to get three separate curses on the scout. The cleric only had one break enchantment spell, so he's going to be stuck with two of the curses for a while. Given the situation in Vigil, resting and recuperating isn't going to be viable, and two of the party members also have Con drain from the wraith.
The party wasn't exactly surprised to get to the surface and find the Radiant Fire had been used.
I'm thinking of running the rest of the module without letting the party sleep and recover spells. It should be do-able, but I think things will get a bit tight.
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My party had the big showdown with Yosiduin. As my party is 6 PCs I beefed up the encounter by throwing in a wraith, mostly because its Lifesense ability annoyed those players who rely on stealth and invisibility. I also tweaked Yosiduin's cruelties, giving him the curse one because it's so much nastier than the others.
Alas, the fight was fairly one sided. The cleric got off a shackle spell on Yosiduin early on and he spent the rest of the fight with his hands manacled behind his back. So all he could use was his corrupting touch attacks, with bestow curse thrown in; he managed to get three separate curses on the scout. The cleric only had one break enchantment spell, so he's going to be stuck with two of the curses for a while. Given the situation in Vigil, resting and recuperating isn't going to be viable, and two of the party members also have Con drain from the wraith.
The party wasn't exactly surprised to get to the surface and find the Radiant Fire had been used.
I'm thinking of running the rest of the module without letting the party sleep and recover spells. It should be do-able, but I think things will get a bit tight.
Make them sweat. Do not let them sleep. They are IN THE APOCALYPSE. If they ever start getting complacent, tighten the screws.
Make them sweat. Do not let them sleep. They are IN THE APOCALYPSE. If they ever start getting complacent, tighten the screws.
I'm doing just that. They wanted to rest up before going below the cathedral to get the Spear of Iomadae, but I had the Captain emphasise how many lives were at risk and how time was of the essence. They were fairly mauled by the fights below so I re-jigged the spells that Aylunna had to be of slightly more assistance to them.
Next week they're going to want to rest up before getting the Spear across to the Ballistae tower and taking on the Haunting Dark. Again, time will be of the essence.
And if they DO rest, I'll just have random encounters turn up.
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Make them sweat. Do not let them sleep. They are IN THE APOCALYPSE. If they ever start getting complacent, tighten the screws.I'm doing just that. They wanted to rest up before going below the cathedral to get the Spear of Iomadae, but I had the Captain emphasise how many lives were at risk and how time was of the essence. They were fairly mauled by the fights below so I re-jigged the spells that Aylunna had to be of slightly more assistance to them.
Next week they're going to want to rest up before getting the Spear across to the Ballistae tower and taking on the Haunting Dark. Again, time will be of the essence.
And if they DO rest, I'll just have random encounters turn up.
imho, the PCs cannot rest in this part of the adventure.
They are in the middle of the end of the g'd world. Maybe the DM can take the foot off the pedal if it's looking dire, but I dunno. I pushed my guys hard and they were feeling it, but in the end they got to the boats alive if barely, and that's what I was going for.
I've started telling my guys ahead of time that certain dungeons / set pieces are not going to be areas where they can rest Like... "Sure... you can try to rest... but I'll just send a monster to attack you. And then do it again. So figure out how to get through this with the resources you have."
We had a lot of fun shooting the ballista. Especially as I changed around the monster and foreshadowed this starting in Book 1.
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Still not letting them rest. Last week they had the fight with Ceto, then fought their way across town to the ballista tower, then fought the Haunting Dark.
They wanted to rest but I had the Captain point out that the time was currently mid-afternoon, and they needed to evacuate the survivors before nightfall because they had no idea what manner of undead nastiness would then emerge. They got the hint.
The Haunting Dark proved challenging. It made its save vs Iomadae's Needle. The sorceress consistently failed to get over its SR. The bard failed his save vs Finger of Death and went down, saved by the cleric's Breath of Life spell, but was still out of the fight. The witch didn't have much that could affect it. I had Dondun cast Greater Invisibility on the scout who was able to get a few rounds of sneak attack.
Ultimately it went down but the party certainly felt exhausted by it. They're very low on spells/resources and I'm still not going to let them rest until they've loaded the survivors onto the boat and fought the turtle and draugr.
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Still not letting them rest. Last week they had the fight with Ceto, then fought their way across town to the ballista tower, then fought the Haunting Dark.
They wanted to rest but I had the Captain point out that the time was currently mid-afternoon, and they needed to evacuate the survivors before nightfall because they had no idea what manner of undead nastiness would then emerge. They got the hint.
The Haunting Dark proved challenging. It made its save vs Iomadae's Needle. The sorceress consistently failed to get over its SR. The bard failed his save vs Finger of Death and went down, saved by the cleric's Breath of Life spell, but was still out of the fight. The witch didn't have much that could affect it. I had Dondun cast Greater Invisibility on the scout who was able to get a few rounds of sneak attack.
Ultimately it went down but the party certainly felt exhausted by it. They're very low on spells/resources and I'm still not going to let them rest until they've loaded the survivors onto the boat and fought the turtle and draugr.
I'm running Sky King's Tomb, and there's a bit where the PCs meet up w/ Knights of Lastwall... and last night, guess who was there?? DONDUN DARADUN! (and Douswen Aubry)
Keep pushing them!
I went easy on them for the last fight with the turtle and draugr. They were so low and resources I had NPCs join the fray. They won thanks to the draugr captain failing his save vs a command undead from the sorceress.
They loaded the refugees onto the barge and off they went.
Now they want nothing more than to sell their loot and buy magic items. Fortunately the cleric gets teleport as a domain spell, so they'll be doing that before they go onto the next phase of the campaing.
Thanks to all those who provided advice and feedback and I might see you on the Gardens of Gallowspire board!
Linking back to what GM Cthulhu was saying, I too have some concerns about this next part. They're about to enter the Dyeworks, and I suspect they'll go straight from here to the sewers to the old temple and then into the Apocalypse. I need to reread the whole of the temple section to see if there's good rest options there at all, but if not then I'm worried they'll be taking on a lot before their next rest, and at least 3 of them are resource-intensive classes (cleric, wizard, paladin (the swashbuckler can buckle swashes for days, they're fine)).
Does any one have any tips for like "this is a good rest stop" or "here's a good item/option to give them back some resources"? Pearls of Power are already acquired. I do wanna make them feel the heat a little bit, but not that much, and I don't have a very good way of signposting "this is gonna be a long haul".
Also, are Dondun Daradun and Doeswyn Aubry written into the Sky King's Tomb adventure? Or are they cameos you added? Just want to check for future reference in case either character dies in my TG campaign and I need to replace them for SKT in the future.
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Linking back to what GM Cthulhu was saying, I too have some concerns about this next part. They're about to enter the Dyeworks, and I suspect they'll go straight from here to the sewers to the old temple and then into the Apocalypse. I need to reread the whole of the temple section to see if there's good rest options there at all, but if not then I'm worried they'll be taking on a lot before their next rest, and at least 3 of them are resource-intensive classes (cleric, wizard, paladin (the swashbuckler can buckle swashes for days, they're fine)).
Does any one have any tips for like "this is a good rest stop" or "here's a good item/option to give them back some resources"? Pearls of Power are already acquired. I do wanna make them feel the heat a little bit, but not that much, and I don't have a very good way of signposting "this is gonna be a long haul".
Also, are Dondun Daradun and Doeswyn Aubry written into the Sky King's Tomb adventure? Or are they cameos you added? Just want to check for future reference in case either character dies in my TG campaign and I need to replace them for SKT in the future.
There is no good spot for a rest: they are going to push through to the Sealbreakers, and when they confront the bad guy BOOM! the apocalypse happens. It's supposed to be brutal. Play it up. They CANNOT REST once the apocalypse happens or you will lose all sense of danger / immediacy.
As for SKT: they are not written in. There's a part early on when the party meets some Knights of Lastwall, and having just wrapped TG, I added them as cameos.
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I let my PCs rest up in the Redoubt. Area G4, the OverGrown Temple, is explicitly stated to be a safe holdup place if they get on the good side of the sump steward.
But once the Radiant Fire had been used: I allowed no rest! They players took the hints NPCs dropped about time being of the essence, but if they'd ignored me I'd have simply interrupted their rest with random encounters.
Still a point about resource-intensive classes, granted that some of it can be mitigated by a warning beforehand.
There are also differences between resting to help with fatigue/exhaustion and resting to get dailies back.
Yeah I definitely wanna keep that sense of danger/immediacy, so after the Redoubt there'll likely be no rest. It's the time before that that I was hoping to maybe squeeze in a chance to get dailies back. But GM Cthulhu is right, the Sump Steward room looks like a good opportunity.
Unfortunately my table have been spoiled on what happens to Vigil (and some other features of the adventure) by accidentally stumbling across details on the wiki/future adventures/memes on Reddit. They don't know the specifics, but I think they know it's coming. So I guess that's gonna put them on edge a little, maybe enough to preserve some resources (though I'm sad I'm not gonna get the raw surprise reaction from them).
If it comes to it, I might engineer some sort of shorter rest to gather back some resources, a moment of refuge in the cathedral or something. It could lead to a momet of good emotional reflection before they have to run off to the next thing, but I don't want it too long to remove that sense of urgency and pressure. Also, though, looking at the encounters in the final section I think they could probably handle most of these with fewer resources, and maybe I can have Aylunna, Evni and Veena supply some consumables. Or maybe a long-duration buff from the altar at the Cathedral or something like that.
As for SKT: they are not written in. There's a part early on when the party meets some Knights of Lastwall, and having just wrapped TG, I added them as cameos.
Also thanks for the info! I'm doing my best to preserve continuity across our adventures and now we're 13 APs, 20 modules and a few homebrews deep its getting hard to keep track of the consequences of player agency.
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Yeah I definitely wanna keep that sense of danger/immediacy, so after the Redoubt there'll likely be no rest. It's the time before that that I was hoping to maybe squeeze in a chance to get dailies back. But GM Cthulhu is right, the Sump Steward room looks like a good opportunity.
Unfortunately my table have been spoiled on what happens to Vigil (and some other features of the adventure) by accidentally stumbling across details on the wiki/future adventures/memes on Reddit. They don't know the specifics, but I think they know it's coming. So I guess that's gonna put them on edge a little, maybe enough to preserve some resources (though I'm sad I'm not gonna get the raw surprise reaction from them).
If it comes to it, I might engineer some sort of shorter rest to gather back some resources, a moment of refuge in the cathedral or something. It could lead to a momet of good emotional reflection before they have to run off to the next thing, but I don't want it too long to remove that sense of urgency and pressure. Also, though, looking at the encounters in the final section I think they could probably handle most of these with fewer resources, and maybe I can have Aylunna, Evni and Veena supply some consumables. Or maybe a long-duration buff from the altar at the Cathedral or something like that.
the cathedral can have scrolls, potions, whatever. i had a cameo from the Herald of Iomedae which bought them time from the evil bat monster [i had it attack them - they were about to get iced within 3 rounds before the heavens opened up (the herald, of course, got got)].
Make it fun. But KEEP THEM MOVING!!! The world is coming to an end. Nap time can come later.
Unfortunately my table have been spoiled on what happens to Vigil (and some other features of the adventure) by accidentally stumbling across details on the wiki/future adventures/memes on Reddit. They don't know the specifics, but I think they know it's coming. So I guess that's gonna put them on edge a little, maybe enough to preserve some resources (though I'm sad I'm not gonna get the raw surprise reaction from them).
For what it's worth, my party was particularly un-surprised when Vigil was destroyed. The already knew that a fragment of the Shattered Shield had destroyed Roslar's Coffer, that theft and intrigue in Vigil had centered on the remaining Shield fragments, that the Seal Breakers were looking to destroy the last seal which they knew to be somewhere in Vigil, and that Gildais had visited the Seal Breakers a few weeks prior and told them not to bother: another way to destroy the seal had been found.
Is it just me or is this module too top heavy with magic loot?I think the same.
This is pure conjecture...but when this AP was being written most of the Paizo people were deep in the development of PF2. So I suspect that this AP got substandard editing, including matching loot to level.
I'm finding errors in game mechanics, plot holes, etc. all over the place!
Allen
This is one a few APs that assume that the PCs won't have much time/opportunities to go shopping in certain parts, this AP also sort of assume the PCs won't have much time/opportunities to rest during certain parts.
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This is one a few APs that assume that the PCs won't have much time/opportunities to go shopping in certain parts, this AP also sort of assume the PCs won't have much time/opportunities to rest during certain parts.Is it just me or is this module too top heavy with magic loot?I think the same.
This is pure conjecture...but when this AP was being written most of the Paizo people were deep in the development of PF2. So I suspect that this AP got substandard editing, including matching loot to level.
I'm finding errors in game mechanics, plot holes, etc. all over the place!
Allen
This.
There's zero opportunities for shopping between midway through Books 3 until the start of Book 5. So, there's gotta be a lotta loot.
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This is pure conjecture...but when this AP was being written most of the Paizo people were deep in the development of PF2. So I suspect that this AP got substandard editing, including matching loot to level.
I'm finding errors in game mechanics, plot holes, etc. all over the place!
Allen
I don't think so. Prior to Tyrant's Grasp, I ran Strange Aeons. This AP doesn't have noticeably more editing errors than that one did.
Party have reached the end of the Redoubt! Tomorrow sees them starting the final part of Last Watch. Here's a few things I've changed around the Redoubt, some because of group-specific stuff and some because I thought it worked a bit better:
Anyways, tomorrow's session starts just after the explosion, then the PCs are gonna hear the bells of the cathedral ringing, letting them know there's survivors, so they'll be heading back in on a rescue mission. (I know this actually leaves opportunity for the party to simply not go back in, whereas as written they come out of the sewers in the thick of it already, but a) I'm confident my party will want to go back in, and b) even if they didn't that's fine, I can get them to Arazni for the book 4 quest-giving without and I guess Vigil has a much tougher time of things.
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Party have reached the end of the Redoubt! Tomorrow sees them starting the final part of Last Watch. Here's a few things I've changed around the Redoubt, some because of group-specific stuff and some because I thought it worked a bit better:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
I also added Gildais early... but in Book 4, as he follows the party through the Hungry Mountains.
Have fun at the end of the world!
I ran an encounter with 3 Fallen on the way to the Cathedral and it kind of dragged on - mostly just a lot of exchanging melee attacks, all the 2d6 negative energy damage was absorbed, the Despair effect wasn't really impactful and while the cleric did get hit with a Curse of the Unburied they took a minute to perform burial rites right after the fight so that's fixed. I really like the Escaping Survivors encounter, it feels cool and different, but wave after wave of Fallen is gonna drag I think. Plus, you know, incredibly low resources right now.
So I've reworked it. Instead of fallen, it's waves of Advanced Mutated Festrogs (Deformities: Mutant Spasms, Fractured Mind - Mutations: Armored, Celerity). Note: I don't think this is strictly allowed as the mutant template can only be added to "any living, corporeal creature, but I'm reasoning that the positive energy triggered the mutations as the negative energy undeadified them.
They're really low challenge rating, but I've added more of them. It's not meant to be a challenge really, but more of a setpiece "they just keep coming" kind of fight. They're gonna go down easy, and they probably wont hit much, but that's kind of good because I think it'll empower the party a bit without detracting from the Apocalypse vibes (they'll still need to retreat after 10 rounds to get the survivors out). Plus seeing what's become of the citizens of Vigil, and having to cut them down, isn't gonna feel heroic enough to detract from The Horrors.
(Edit: I realise Fractured Mind gives the confused condition, and undead are immune to mind-affecting effects, but I'm rolling with it. Something about those mortal minds still being in there, driven insane by their sudden and horrible changes).
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I ran an encounter with 3 Fallen on the way to the Cathedral and it kind of dragged on - mostly just a lot of exchanging melee attacks, all the 2d6 negative energy damage was absorbed, the Despair effect wasn't really impactful and while the cleric did get hit with a Curse of the Unburied they took a minute to perform burial rites right after the fight so that's fixed. I really like the Escaping Survivors encounter, it feels cool and different, but wave after wave of Fallen is gonna drag I think. Plus, you know, incredibly low resources right now.
So I've reworked it. Instead of fallen, it's waves of Advanced Mutated Festrogs (Deformities: Mutant Spasms, Fractured Mind - Mutations: Armored, Celerity). Note: I don't think this is strictly allowed as the mutant template can only be added to "any living, corporeal creature, but I'm reasoning that the positive energy triggered the mutations as the negative energy undeadified them.
They're really low challenge rating, but I've added more of them. It's not meant to be a challenge really, but more of a setpiece "they just keep coming" kind of fight. They're gonna go down easy, and they probably wont hit much, but that's kind of good because I think it'll empower the party a bit without detracting from the Apocalypse vibes (they'll still need to retreat after 10 rounds to get the survivors out). Plus seeing what's become of the citizens of Vigil, and having to cut them down, isn't gonna feel heroic enough to detract from The Horrors.
(Edit: I realise Fractured Mind gives the confused condition, and undead are immune to mind-affecting effects, but I'm rolling with it. Something about those mortal minds still being in there, driven insane by their sudden and horrible changes).
That sounds like a lot of fun.
I added an encounter with a... lemme look... a Carnivorous Ooze [I think? or a gravesludge? or maybe some third party thing... can't quite remember...], which attacked an NPC's house of pleasure which the PCs headed directly for after emerging from the sewers. It overwhelmed them and they escaped out the back with it rampaging through the house. Fun encounter.
Love the idea of throwing lots of low level zombie types at them as they struggle to hold or just arrive at the cathedral.
Just looked these up, the gravesludge looks like a grat fit in particular! Looking at its Wall of Ectoplasm spell and imagining a scenario where it's walled off an area to feed or something and the PCs have to break in and kill it before it devours the civilians.
I'm gonna keep the idea in reserve because I think my party are already suffering and I don't want this last part to be too much of a slog - pressure is good here but too much and they're just gonna get into a "gods damn it, another thing to deal with" headspace. Though I might add gravesludges to book 4 maybe, if I find a good space for them. Thanks for the idea ^^.
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Just looked these up, the gravesludge looks like a grat fit in particular! Looking at its Wall of Ectoplasm spell and imagining a scenario where it's walled off an area to feed or something and the PCs have to break in and kill it before it devours the civilians.
I'm gonna keep the idea in reserve because I think my party are already suffering and I don't want this last part to be too much of a slog - pressure is good here but too much and they're just gonna get into a "gods damn it, another thing to deal with" headspace. Though I might add gravesludges to book 4 maybe, if I find a good space for them. Thanks for the idea ^^.
you could also run it as a hazard. some huge ooze of bones and gore chasing them through the streets.
doesn't need to be a fight.
Just looked these up, the gravesludge looks like a grat fit in particular! Looking at its Wall of Ectoplasm spell and imagining a scenario where it's walled off an area to feed or something and the PCs have to break in and kill it before it devours the civilians.
I'm gonna keep the idea in reserve because I think my party are already suffering and I don't want this last part to be too much of a slog - pressure is good here but too much and they're just gonna get into a "gods damn it, another thing to deal with" headspace. Though I might add gravesludges to book 4 maybe, if I find a good space for them. Thanks for the idea ^^.
There's already a gravesludge in Book 4, fairly early on once they get to Gallowspire. And it's in a great spot, in a mausoleum that's knee deep in filthy water. My party will be encountering it this week.
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Just looked these up, the gravesludge looks like a grat fit in particular! Looking at its Wall of Ectoplasm spell and imagining a scenario where it's walled off an area to feed or something and the PCs have to break in and kill it before it devours the civilians.
I'm gonna keep the idea in reserve because I think my party are already suffering and I don't want this last part to be too much of a slog - pressure is good here but too much and they're just gonna get into a "gods damn it, another thing to deal with" headspace. Though I might add gravesludges to book 4 maybe, if I find a good space for them. Thanks for the idea ^^.
it was a behemoth pudding. so... CR 9, something that they could handle, but were having a rough go of it, and decided to run rather than kill.
i love me an ooze.
We're finally at the end of the book! Just got one more sessions of wrap-up and they're onto greener and grassier pas- Oh wait it's Virlych.
The fight against The Haunting Dark went pretty well - Wizard summoned a flying Ankylosaurus for the Paladin to ride into battle, they cast Death Ward on it to make it immune to the nightwing's Channel Energy buuuut it didn't do much for the Cone of Cold right to the face. Still, it survived long enough to make a couple attacks, and when it died to a nasty AoO the Paladin dismounted and managed to mount the nightwing instead. Swashbuckler hit with the Needle. it passed its save but still 50-something hp down is a nasty blow. Also the cleric had a big reveal of a sort of awakened-aasimar state (she's been outwardly a half-elf the whole time but an aasimar on paper, I know this isn't reeeeaally how aasimar heritage works but it was fun! Some stuff about Sarenrae's fury burning through her and such.) She had wings of fire and a Flame Blade (to hit that 12 touch AC instead of dealing with the 29 AC) and used Invoke Deity:Glory Domain (via Deific Essence) to get heroism and add a lil 1d6 positive energy damage each turn but mostly to look really cool.
I'm gonna forego the final fight with the zombie sailors and the mutated turtle - it's a cool setpiece but my party are exhausted and running on fumes and I think it's crossing into the territory of just being frustrating rather than impactful apocalyptic narrative. The death of the Haunting Dark is a good note to finish on, so it'll be a mad dash to get all the survivors to the ship (from both the Tower and the Cathedral), and then setting sail for a much needed rest.
Guess I should start prepping book 4 now....
We're finally at the end of the book! Just got one more sessions of wrap-up and they're onto greener and grassier pas- Oh wait it's Virlych.
The fight against The Haunting Dark went pretty well - Wizard summoned a flying Ankylosaurus for the Paladin to ride into battle, they cast Death Ward on it to make it immune to the nightwing's Channel Energy buuuut it didn't do much for the Cone of Cold right to the face. Still, it survived long enough to make a couple attacks, and when it died to a nasty AoO the Paladin dismounted and managed to mount the nightwing instead. Swashbuckler hit with the Needle. it passed its save but still 50-something hp down is a nasty blow. Also the cleric had a big reveal of a sort of awakened-aasimar state (she's been outwardly a half-elf the whole time but an aasimar on paper, I know this isn't reeeeaally how aasimar heritage works but it was fun! Some stuff about Sarenrae's fury burning through her and such.) She had wings of fire and a Flame Blade (to hit that 12 touch AC instead of dealing with the 29 AC) and used Invoke Deity:Glory Domain (via Deific Essence) to get heroism and add a lil 1d6 positive energy damage each turn but mostly to look really cool.
I'm gonna forego the final fight with the zombie sailors and the mutated turtle - it's a cool setpiece but my party are exhausted and running on fumes and I think it's crossing into the territory of just being frustrating rather than impactful apocalyptic narrative. The death of the Haunting Dark is a good note to finish on, so it'll be a mad dash to get all the survivors to the ship (from both the Tower and the Cathedral), and then setting sail for a much needed rest.
Guess I should start prepping book 4 now....
I also liked the battle with the Haunting Dark, but my party were fairly underwhelmed when they found out what Iomedae’s Needle actually DID. The buildup and effort required to obtain it had them expecting a super-weapon, what they got was a bit lame.
In hindsight I should probably have finished the module there/then, as you did. The zombie sailors and turtle were fairly anti-climactic after the HD. But it did provide a bit of amusement to all when the party witch forgot to move after casting a spell at the turtle, leaving himself in range to be attacked and grappled.
There's another Haunting Dark in Book 4, the last encounter before they enter Gallowspire. It's got a silly backstory where it's the brother of the HD the party killed in Book 3. But neither it nor the party had any way of knowing that, so I dropped it and threw a different monster at them instead.
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We're finally at the end of the book! Just got one more sessions of wrap-up and they're onto greener and grassier pas- Oh wait it's Virlych.
The fight against The Haunting Dark went pretty well - Wizard summoned a flying Ankylosaurus for the Paladin to ride into battle, they cast Death Ward on it to make it immune to the nightwing's Channel Energy buuuut it didn't do much for the Cone of Cold right to the face. Still, it survived long enough to make a couple attacks, and when it died to a nasty AoO the Paladin dismounted and managed to mount the nightwing instead. Swashbuckler hit with the Needle. it passed its save but still 50-something hp down is a nasty blow. Also the cleric had a big reveal of a sort of awakened-aasimar state (she's been outwardly a half-elf the whole time but an aasimar on paper, I know this isn't reeeeaally how aasimar heritage works but it was fun! Some stuff about Sarenrae's fury burning through her and such.) She had wings of fire and a Flame Blade (to hit that 12 touch AC instead of dealing with the 29 AC) and used Invoke Deity:Glory Domain (via Deific Essence) to get heroism and add a lil 1d6 positive energy damage each turn but mostly to look really cool.
I'm gonna forego the final fight with the zombie sailors and the mutated turtle - it's a cool setpiece but my party are exhausted and running on fumes and I think it's crossing into the territory of just being frustrating rather than impactful apocalyptic narrative. The death of the Haunting Dark is a good note to finish on, so it'll be a mad dash to get all the survivors to the ship (from both the Tower and the Cathedral), and then setting sail for a much needed rest.
Guess I should start prepping book 4 now....
very fun w/ the flying dinosaur!
I dropped the zombie sailor fight in lieu of a showdown with the escaped gnome thief ... ALL OUT GNOME WARFARE!!! grabbed like 6 gnome NPCs and had them ambush the party as giant skeleton monsters chased them down and crazy living plants started emerging from the sewers.
They were also on fumes... but I felt like I had to wrap up that plotline. They got out to the docks, with nary a draugr in sight, but it was a close thing, just like I intended.
The swashbuckler almost got got by the crocodile in the sewers, but they managed to escape the beast... so instead of a massive turtle, it was a mutant crocodile which emerged [no combat though]. And of course, as the PCs looked back at the burning ruins of Vigil, with the sun setting, the smoke almost seemed to turn into a thousands masked crows descending on the wreck of Vigil...