Cleric / Wizard

[Chris Ballard]

I hope I’m not duplicating anything, I haven’t found anything yet.

Is there a way for a wizard to use wisdom for spell casting or a cleric to use intelligence for spell Casting?

[Dasrak]

No, there is not. The empyreal sorcerer is the only way to get wisdom-based arcane spellcasting, and to this day there are no intelligence-based divine spellcasters. If you want to build a mystic theurge that only uses one ability score, your choices are either to go with charisma, or to go with wisdom and use empyreal sorcerer.

[Alphavoltario]

Dasrak wrote:

No, there is not. The empyreal sorcerer is the only way to get wisdom-based arcane spellcasting, and to this day there are no intelligence-based divine spellcasters. If you want to build a mystic theurge that only uses one ability score, your choices are either to go with charisma, or to go with wisdom and use empyreal sorcerer.

What no Wizard/Living Grimoire Inquisitor using only Int? But yeah for full caster theurgers running off one stat, Dasraks suggestion is pretty solid (i believe Witch/Shaman works with theurge as well, but that poor familiar gets nerfed hard).

[Meirril]

I'm just going to be 'That Guy' and say Mystic Theurge is really weak for what it gives you. Being 2 whole Spell Levels behind single class casters makes you excessively weak.

[zza ni]

Dasrak wrote:

No, there is not. The empyreal sorcerer is the only way to get wisdom-based arcane spellcasting, and to this day there are no intelligence-based divine spellcasters. If you want to build a mystic theurge that only uses one ability score, your choices are either to go with charisma, or to go with wisdom and use empyreal sorcerer.

Living Grimoire beg to differ. not full caster but still up to 6th level divine spells.

[Dasrak]

Alphavoltario wrote:

What no Wizard/Living Grimoire Inquisitor using only Int?

I was afraid I'd forgotten one, but I knew someone would call me out if I did ;-)

In any case, going with 6-level casting means you'll have lower level spells which will result in lower DC's. This negates much of the benefit of being SAD in the first place. You'll end up with about the same DC's, but have fewer spell slots and lower level spell access. I've seen lots of builds that try to make mystic theurge work with 6-level casters, and I've tried building it and making it work, but it really doesn't.

Meirril wrote:

I'm just going to be 'That Guy' and say Mystic Theurge is really weak for what it gives you. Being 2 whole Spell Levels behind single class casters makes you excessively weak.

It depends on what levels you're playing. Mystic Theurge is utterly atrocious at low levels, but slowly improves as you take more levels of the prestige class. Once you're around 12th it's actually pretty solid. I would never recommend it for a game that's starting below 8th level, but if you're starting after 10th there is nothing wrong with it.

[Kayerloth]

I'll second Dasrak position on the overall level matters. Mine was a 3.5 Clr/Sor/MTh but even with the loss of spell levels she was a ton of fun as she got into the 10+ range. Carefully choosing her known spells as a Sorcerer to make DC's less of an issue as well as choosing them with an eye towards extensive use of metamagic.

[Whisperer in Darkness]

there are several disadvantageous tradeoffs for Mystic Theurge. Slower access to spell levels, lack of primary class ability advancement or gaining class feats, Mystic Theurge only going 10 levels, no gain in proficiencies or skill point rate, ...

Advice:
Most of that is easily fixable in a Home Game except for the 3 levels in secondary class that is "lost" (I'm avoiding using SLAs). It's still somewhat of a mess.

My suggestion is to simply write a standard class for Mystic TheurgeTwo-traditions Caster and avoid the hassle of the Prestige class in your home game. I'd check the Homebrew forums for possible examples.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Chris Ballard wrote:

Is there a way for a wizard to use wisdom for spell casting or a cleric to use intelligence for spell Casting?

Dasrak wrote:

No, there is not.

Wait, doesn't Mystic Theurge let you do exactly this?

Mystic Theurge wrote:

A mystic theurge can prepare and cast spells from one of his spellcasting classes using the available slots from any of his other spellcasting classes.

When I use a Wizard Slot to cast Advanced Scurvy, am I not in fact casting a Cleric Spell as if it were a Wizard Spell, using my Int modifier instead of my Wisdom Modifier for Save DC?

[Scott Wilhelm]

Chris Ballard wrote:

Is there a way for a wizard to use wisdom for spell casting or a cleric to use intelligence for spell Casting?

I thought Mystic Theurge lets you do exactly this.

Mystic Theurge, Combined Spells wrote:

A mystic theurge can prepare and cast spells from one of his spellcasting classes using the available slots from any of his other spellcasting classes.

When my Cleric/Wizard Mystic Theurge uses Combined Spells to cast Advanced Scurvy as a Wizard Spell instead of as a Cleric Spell, is she not using her Intelligence and not her Wisdom for her Save DC? Does she not increase the Save DC by 1 because casting the spell with this ability increases the Spell Level?

[willuwontu]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Mystic Theurge, Combined Spells wrote:

A mystic theurge can prepare and cast spells from one of his spellcasting classes using the available slots from any of his other spellcasting classes.

When my Cleric/Wizard Mystic Theurge uses Combined Spells to cast Advanced Scurvy as a Wizard Spell instead of as a Cleric Spell, is she not using her Intelligence and not her Wisdom for her Save DC? Does she not increase the Save DC by 1 because casting the spell with this ability increases the Spell Level?

The DC does not increase by 1, nor do you use the other classes spellcasting stat.

Take divine favor, even if you cast it using your 2nd level wizard slot, it's still a 1st level spell. This is no different than preparing it as a 2nd level cleric spell without heighten spell. It's still functionally a 1st level spell (it does not count as a 2nd level spell), but one that you're paying a higher price for.

As for the casting stat, you're casting a spell from your cleric class, just using a slot from wizard. The cleric is still casting it (and it counts as a divine spell), but you are using another source for the price of casting.

[Xenocrat]

That just lets you shift slots around, it doesn't swap the spellcasting attribute and CL.

You cast class spells using class attributes and slots, and those are limited in number by slots. The fact that you're expanding your slot limits by borrowing from another class doesn't let you also use that other class's spellcasting attribute. It just lets you load up on a lot of spells that are limited to one class list.

[Derklord]

The only way I can think of to get prepared full divine and arcane casting on the same ability score is Seducer Witch plus either Elder Mythos Cultist Cleric or Feyspeaker Druid, all three use charisma.