Not exactly in a negative way, but... I think I'm on my way out (At least until the CRB)

[Edge93]

As the title, I think I'm going to be phasing out of the forums here. This isn't a "Paizo did something I don't like so now I'm leaving" or anything, it's a bit more pragmatic than that.

I've been spending loads of time on these forums lately, and I really kinda need that time elsewhere.

Furthermore, a large portion of my time on these forums has been defending various decisions Paizo has made with the Playtest to people who dislike them to varying degrees, which is the main thing that has kept me here as with all the negativity about certain things I wanted to provide advocation and argument for why I and my group have found those things to be very good and why I think they are good for the game.

However, basically all of the things that I have been defending have had likely final-ish calls made on them to alter them quite a bit, and as such there is little reason for me to continue defending these things as they are changing anyway and nothing I say about them is likely to change Paizo's mind as they've set their courses (and with plenty of reason, I have no doubt).

There's little point spending hours defending why +level to Untrained makes the game more fun for me and my group, as it is leaving.

There's little point spending hours talking about how spells have been seriously effective for my group and feel great as-is, as they are getting buffed.

There's little point spending hours explaining how I believe having a 50-65% hit chance depending on build and class against on-level foes and having to use buffs, debuffs, and tactics to push and cajole into the upper echelons of hit chance reaching 75-95% is one of the absolute best changes of the Playtest and is an excellent base balance point for the math to be fixed into, because there is indication that that base balance point is getting bumped upwards.

With there being little reason to continue in my main activities on the forum and main reason for watching so closely around here, I've decided to back of more fully and find other uses for that time (It's not like I have any shortage of areas IRL that could use some extra time XD). I will still peek in here sometimes and watch for official news or interesting topics, and I eagerly await the PF2 CRB to see what has transpired between the Playtest and there, but I'm gonna be keeping a fair bit more of a distance, at least until the CRB hits.

And LET ME BE CLEAR, this is no complaint against Paizo. I've loved sticking around through the testing and creative process, and while I may have felt a bit stung by some of the changes from the latest Twitch stream I heard, I recognize that all I am seeing is a cursory desription of these changes off of the forums, and I don't have a clue how it will look in the final product. Maybe Paizo will implement them so freaking well I will love it to bits, even more than the Playtest. Or maybe it will be a bit off to me and the game I want just isn't quite what Paizo or most people looking at the game are going for and I'll end up tweaking things. I don't know, but I do know Paizo is doing their utmost to make the best game they can with the vision they have, and I'm thrilled to see what the final product looks like and wish them all the best!

I will understand if this thread gets locked fairly quick, as I expect there isn't too much productive discussion to be had off of this but I wanted to get all this out there, as well as provide explanation for any disappearing from active topics I may do.

I may still find time and motivation to finish my group's Part 7 writeup, but I'm not sure. I probably won't have the time or drive to do the writeups of earlier chapters (Except Part 5 which is already on the forum) from my memories, but that was a stretch even when I was sticking around. I do wish I'd started doing those from the get-go, as I think they would have drawn some good discussion. Our group has had some of the very best reception of and success with the Playtest of anything I have seen on this forum, quite possibly even up there with how well things have gone for Deadmanwalking's group.

Maybe I could do like a quicker, more casual, and less hand-hurting audio recording of our thoughts or something, or maybe even do a group recording and link to it on here! Just thought of that, I might actually do it.

And it bears mentioning again, my group has LOVED the Playtest and can't wait for the final product! Thank you so much to Paizo for all your hard work, innovation, and not being afraid to try new stuff!

So with that, I do believe I am out of here for the most part. My thanks to all the people I have discussed and debated with on here, and especially to Paizo!

Until the CRB, goodbye and God Bless!

[Raylyeh]

I’m there with you man. Good luck and maybe see you in the future. “Salute”

[graystone]

LOL I'm with you too, though I'm on the side of complaining vs your defending. I've found myself going longer and longer times between checking the site and commenting on things so I too may end up wandering off soon until actual books see print. At this point, there isn't much to debate on about the playtest when nearly anything in the playtest might not make it to the end. I think no matter WHAT ends up in it, a bunch of people are not going to be happy.

See you on the flip side Edge93. ;).

[Dasrak]

I've been in lurker mode for the past month and a half since my playtest group disbanded (not going to bother making a melodramatic thread about it; the reasons are the ones you've heard a hundred times already, and Undarin was the two-by-four that broke the camel's back). I'm curious to see what comes out the other end, and while I don't have any plans on converting I will definitely peruse the final ruleset when it's available.

Most of the discussion at this point are things that have already touched on before, and since I'm not doing any more playtesting my opinions aren't likely to change at this point. There are a few topics I don't feel have been adequately discussed (spell manifestations are a big one) but between prepping for my own games and the holiday season I just haven't had the energy for it. It's easier and much more pleasant just to go back to lurking.

I'm not going anywhere, but you probably won't hear much if anything from me until the rules hit. I'll see you guys on the other side :-)

[Lyee]

Yep. I'm done with 2E - not because 2E's bad, but because it's incomplete and I don't see myself giving further useful feedback. I check in once every week or two to see if devs have posted news. I'm cautiously optimistic about the final result, but I don't think the published playtest was ever considered a full system people were going to play all the way to 2E's release.

[Doktor Weasel]

Yeah, there is the point that with the playtest basically done, there really isn't all that much to productively discuss anymore. I don't think it's all finalized yet, so there might still be some point in discussing various points. But we are at the point of diminishing returns. Maybe after Tuesday comes along and the playtest is well and truly over, they'll start to share more information about the direction things are going, and will be accepting feedback on that. I still think there should be another iteration of playtesting, but I really don't see that happening. And absent that, I hope there will be some discussion of what's coming instead of simply everything going dark until it's all done and they start revealing the final details to hype up the release.

[Captain Morgan]

Cheers, Edge. I've enjoyed having you around.

Myself, Edwir, and a couple of other folks are going to keep using the playtest rules for conversions and tweaking with house rules. Keep and eye out for those, as I'm sure we would love you weighing in. Generally speaking I've found staying out of the general discussion forum and just watching the specific topic boards is better for my blood pressure, but those have been pretty quiet at this point.

[Deadmanwalking]

I'm not leaving, but people may have noticed I've mostly been posting less, and it's basically for a lot of the same reasons (though I'm less concerned about most of the changes than Edge is, I'm really only at all skeptical of the Untrained thing). I mean, the current game being worked on over at Paizo is now a game I haven't looked at and cannot comment on meaningfully in many ways, which makes commenting less useful and interesting.

Add in that my Playtest Game is over and we're not doing PF2 stuff any more at the moment (we're moving on to the Dresden Files RPG for a while), and my motivation to spend time here is even more lowered.

I'll definitely still be popping around and skimming, and will probably come back to posting a lot when the final book comes out, but it's gonna be a lot less than it was for a while there.

So goodbye Edge93, and everyone else leaving due to the Playtest drawing to a close, I totally get where you're all coming from. It's been fun and I'll see folks when the final book is out.

[Charon Onozuka]

Much understanding, as I know I've burned myself out a bit trying to wrap things up before the survey period ends. Granted, I do want to warn that people (including paizo) shouldn't be viewing things as set in stone based on survey results when the survey period isn't done yet. I'm sure there are many groups (*cough* mine) who have put many of the surveys off until they got as much actual playtesting in as possible, so I'd expect a large influx of data to be pouring in right about now as the deadline approaches.

Other than that, I'm similar in how my checking of the forums will likely be slowing down. I am still personally hoping that we get some more interesting blog posts once the survey period is fully over, so I'll still be keeping an eye on that while my group runs some of the Playtest parts we had to skip for time concerns.

See you all more when the final draft of 2E is upon us. Cheers.

[MER-c]

Outside of a few snide comments with playtesting over with I've moved toward setting the playtest rules up for more sustained use until the core material arrives. In the meantime that includes a personal fix for Sorcerer to make them totally unique.

[TSRodriguez]

I got burned out a long time ago. The negativity is too much. Everyone is always angry, and when someone brings up the topic of "Power level", like; "this is weak, this is not viable" and all that, I get really frustrated because I saw the forums on the mythic rules playtest, and everyone was asking for MORE power... and then go on and complain that everything is too powerful after the release.
I prefer reading the OAD reports, or see the GCP playing, its a much happier experience, and it gives the same amount of information.
See you soon man!

[Edge93]

MER-c wrote:

Outside of a few snide comments with playtesting over with I've moved toward setting the playtest rules up for more sustained use until the core material arrives. In the meantime that includes a personal fix for Sorcerer to make them totally unique.

Nice. I've got a couple of ongoing campaigns in PF1 to get back to now that the Playtest is done and try to finish it all before the CRB comes, but I too am hoping to find time to run more PF2 in the meanwhile and have multiple houserules in mind also (Another thing I have meant to make a thread on, and may still do so).

For the Sorcerer I don't have too much in mind but I do plan to make them an 8 HP per level class and maybe give them light armor prof (This is a change I may apply to PF1 too). Sorcerers have always felt like they should be kind of hardier mages as they have to focus on studying and refining their magic less than a Wizard, or at least not in the same way.

Also I plan to see what it's like if I make the Bard a prepared caster, flavoring their spells as manifesting from musical bits that have to be "Rehearsed" each day in the same way other casters prepare spells. This is partly to make it so that there is a prepared caster option for each of the 4 magical traditions (As it stands if you want to use the Occult list but prefer prepared casting you are out of luck) and also to give the Sorcerer a monopoly as the only spontaneous caster.

[Tridus]

I think you're in the same boat as a lot of people. Without anything new to test and not much to discuss, stuff will quickly become about rehashing the same topics over and over again, which is pointlessly frustrating for everyone.

Hope to see a lot of folks back when the PF2 CRB hits. :)

[Siro]

Thanks for the time and impute on PF2 as a whole Edge93, and a complete understanding for the need for the break. See you at the CBR, and enjoy every game you play in the meantime.

[Steve Geddes]

You were an excellent contributor. I hope the changes that sound poor to you now will be implemented in ways you can accept.