GMs, Help! Spell Durations & Death

[DeadFace]

Sparing you all the details of how this all came up, I need the input of you experienced GMs/DMs on spell duration.
So, a spellcaster dies with active spell effects ~ Do the spells expire based on the CL at the time of casting, or do they instantly expire when the caster is slain? Particularly:
A) Summoned creatures from Summon Nature's Ally/ Summon Monster or Summon Eidolon?
Why? -or-
B) Other CL-based durations, eg, Fly, Invisibility, or Dimensional Anchor? Why?

I assume spells made permanent via Permanency spells are unaffected, of course. BUT,
what if the target of a spell dies? Say that 'Bob' is slain whilst under the effects of Fly, Invisibility, and a permanent Arcane Sight? I assume the Fly spell ends (no longer a creature to affect,) but would Invisibility remain, as it targets objects, too? Is Arcane Sight gone too? What if 'Bob' is the subject of a Breath of Life spell? Will Fly still be in effect, or the permanent Arcane Sight? Does it matter if we use Raise Dead? Or reincarnate? Why?
Related, but not a matter of death ~ Does the Summoner's Eidolon lose the effects of Greater Evolution Surge if dismissed and re-summoned via Summon Eidolon? Any help would be , er... helpful. Thanks in advance. x_x

[Edge93]

Honestly, these are all questions I have wondered but never known for sure the answer to.

HOWEVER, I think that judging by the rules any magic effects that don't require concentration every round would actually not end, because once the spell has been cast the caster really isn't part of sustaining the spell anymore, they already used the magic and it just lasts for x time no matter what the caster does.

Exception being Eidolon, I think the rules specify that they go home if the summoner dies, regardless of how they were called.

But I have never seen anything in the actual rules about spells ending on caster death, I think it's just a question that we think of despite the rules never indicating they do end.

Also this is the PF2 Playtest forum, not PF1. ;P

[Sam Phelan]

Moved to Pathfinder 1 forum.

[ckdragons]

I believe RAW are silent on these "death with active spells" rules. So, you will probably have differences table-to-table.

Personally as a GM, any active spells on the dead character will remain active. The energy of the spell has already been spent and the spell is remaining active on that energy. However, there are some specific situations where the active spell may or may not expire. You should read the descriptions to determine if it behaves differently.

In your examples above...

A) Summoned creatures will remain. They will follow the last instructions provided by the now-dead caster. Not too sure with the Eidolon. I'm not familiar with their specifics (I know they don't follow the "standard" summon creature rules) because I haven't had anyone play a Summoner.

B) Spells with specific durations will continue to be active. Concentration-based durations will immediately cease or continue if they are "+x rounds per level" in their description.

Bob with the flying, invisibility, and arcane sight will continue to be invisible when he dies. The flying will continue, but he will float to the ground (probably reaches the ground immediately unless he is over 600 feet up) since he is no longer "concentrating to maintain flying" in the same manner as he would concentrate to walk (see flying description). The arcane sight effect will remain active but useless to Bob.

Regarding permanent spells, its the GM's call to if/when that effect ends, though I think it would be kinda cool if a party is walking through a graveyard with shallow graves or a crypt, casts detect magic and sees all the active permanent spells on the corpses.

My 2cp input on this. :)

[Warped Savant]

If a spell doesn't last past the caster's death then the "Permanency" spell isn't very permanent.
(And I've seen things written as being made permanent with the spell in a few different APs/modules that have outlived the casters by centuries.)

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

We've argued this back and forth for years and come to the conclusion that, to use Ars Magica terminology, magic effects are not life-linked: they last until the duration expires, even if the caster expires first.

[Kayerloth]

I've done pretty much what Bjorn says unless something about a specific spell indicates or highly suggests otherwise in its text. One example is shapeshifting magic. Generally upon death a shapeshifter it resumes its 'natural' form. If that magic is via spell or (Sp) ability then those spells "expire" upon death of the caster.