PFS character build advice: Trip or Disarm?

[Lyrad the Strange]

Hi Guys,

I need some advice. I am going to be joining a PFS game here pretty soon. It's been about 6 years since I have played PFS, but I have been playing home games in the interim.

I'm planning something different (for me). I would like to play a Lore Warden who uses a spiked chain. Probably not an original concept; but the class and the weapon are new to me (I don't usually play Fighters).

I plan on taking the Trip & Disarm feat paths to take advantage of the spiked chains properties.

I can't decide which combat maneuver to develop first; Trip, or Disarm?

I know that Trip is more effective at lower levels (when more of your foes are either humanoid, or otherwise not immune to tripping). If I take it as a Fighter Bonus feat I figure can trade it out later if I am finding I am not using that much.

But the spiked chain provides a +2 bonus to CMB checks made to disarm an opponent. That +2 makes a bigger difference at lower levels!

So my question is, which do you think I should focus on first? Trip or Disarm?

I am leaning towards Trip - but only because my plan is to use the AoO I would get when a tripped (prone) opponent tries to stand up, to try and disarm him. My understanding is that he would suffer the -4 penalty to his CMD on account of being prone, and even though he would get an AoO against me (for not having the Improved Disarm feat, yet), his AoO against me would be made at -4 to hit.

Can the rules guru's confirm my understanding of how that all works is correct?

Thanks in advance!

[VoodistMonk]

Trip, probably.

The Greater Trip feat provides the AoO, which is better than the Greater Disarm feat. So finishing the trip tree is more advantageous overall, in comparison.

Plus, you can easily combine trip with Power Attack, using Felling Smash.

But, honestly, combat maneuvers are a trap. So don't waste too many feats on any of them, and retrain the feats as soon as they stop being useful.

If you aren't actually building to use Combat Expertise, use the Dirty Fighting feat as the prerequisite for Improved Trip.

[Meirril]

I'm going to second that combat maneuvers have a limited viability. Simply put you run out of enemies that you can use them on. For one reason or another lots of opponents won't be viable targets for your combat maneuver of choice.

That said trip is more viable. There are lots of monsters you can trip that do not use weapons. There are less monsters that use weapons that can't be tripped.

[Lyrad the Strange]

Thanks for the advice guys! From what I recall with PFS there were more humanoid, weapon using foes, making the maneuvers more viable than a typical AP or home game - at last back in the day...

I just learned that the Lore Warden has changed since I played PFS last. I don't have the new sourcebook, but looking online it looks like the newer version is a bit nerfed.

I'll have to see if this affects my overall concept... Fortunately because I have the PFS Field Guide I can still play a lore warden without having to buy the newer book.

[BadBird]

There are plenty of ways to make trip and combat maneuvers very powerful within PFS levels, and a maneuver-specialized build should still be effective at combat if tripping doesn't work.

Multiclassing and/or magic is probably the best option overall for monstrous CMB/trip with all the tricks available for beefing up size and CMB. Getting swift-action tripping is also possible through some spells.

[pad300]

As an alternative, I would actually suggest a different combat maneuver : Dirty Trick. DT works on just about everything, and can have very strong effects.

There are numerous ways to improve on the basic Dirty Trick maneuver...

[Taja the Barbarian]

VoodistMonk wrote:

...

But, honestly, combat maneuvers are a trap. So don't waste too many feats on any of them, and retrain the feats as soon as they stop being useful...

As I recall, Combat Maneuvers are a double-edged trap in PFS. Either:

• They don't work at all because the target doesn't have weapons / equipment / legs, etc., or
• They work too well, because PFS GMs aren't allowed to add anything to the adventure and authors have a nasty tendency to not give the NPCs 'backup gear', leading to BBEG's trying to punch the PCs because he lost his only weapon in round 1

While the latter option is preferred by players, neither sounds particularly fun...

[Slyme]

Keep in mind that prone characters are harder to hit with ranged attacks...tripping things tends to annoy the archery focused characters in a group

[Selvaxri]

Dirty Fighting feat allows you to forego any flanking bonus for an uninterrupted combat maneuver.
I have a Swashbuckler/Ranger that uses Dirty Fighting to either attempt a Disarm or Trip attempt, depending on the enemy.

Dirty Fighting comes with the bonus benefits of counting as both Improved Unarmed Strike and Combat Expertise to qualify for other feats.

[Kifaru]

I like to use a magus for maneuver builds. The wand wilder arcana and a wand of blade lash will give you a trip attempt with 10 foot reach and a +10 to the maneuver.

My primary maneuver character makes use of a whip and the enlarge spell. Incredible reach. He makes extensive use of trip, disarm, and reposition. It's hilarious when you can start a combat by tripping a bad guy, disarming him, and then dragging him across the room to lay at the feet of the heavy hitter fighter in the group.

[Zolanoteph]

I would like to chime in here to counter those who say combat maneuvers aren't viable.

If you play high level games primarilly against creatures from the monster manual that's true, but who the hell wants to do that?!

High levels don't really work, avoid em.

Humanoid NPCs are cool enemies, if the GM is designing a campaign around driders and centipedes and dragons and magical horses as the main combat encounters they've already lost me.