It seems as though a bite attack is being treated as being considerably more powerful than any other kind of natural attack a character could have. Why is this?
You can take bite as a Standard Trait for 1 RP(pg 232), however this bite only does damage as tho it were 2 size levels smaller than you actually are. I can see this being thrown in for characters who dont want to get past Standard Traits for their race and still give your race a lil bite so it can defend itself in a worst case scenario.
But you decide to step it up, wanting a real bite thats worth using in melee. You upgrade to Advanced Traits. You see you can get 2 size-appropriate claw attacks for 2RP(pg 235), but you want a bite. Looking a bit further you find the Natural Attack Trait for 1RP(pg 235). This allows you to have ANY other kind of natural attack, from horns, to a stinger, to a wing buffet, with damage appropriate for your size...except bite. Under the RAW you CANNOT get a bite attack with size appropriate damage.
Why is that? Am I missing something about biting this is so superawesomecool compared to say horns?
I am very confused. Enlighten me please...
AtD
IIRC, Bite often has extra side effects (Canine bite + trip, Snake Bite+Constrict or Bite+Poison, Cat Bite+Rake) and this may be part of it. Also note you can take it again to raise the die type by 1 size catagory. I see no reason why you couldn't homebrew it like this:
1 RP = 2 catagories smaller
2 RP = 1 Catagory smaller
4 RP = Normal for size
6 RP = +1 size catagory
Take a look also at Goblins...the alternate trait "Hard Head, Big Teeth" - Goblins are small, and that one gives them a D4 bite instead of a 1D2 bite like the normal bite or 1D3 for the double bite.
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I'll be the devil's advocate and say a Bite is way better than most natural attacks as it doesn't occupy your hands and you could use a two hander with it.
It's essentially an iterative attack and incredibly valuable at lower levels and still useful against enemies without DR.
I'll be the devil's advocate and say a Bite is way better than most natural attacks as it doesn't occupy your hands and you could use a two hander with it.
It's essentially an iterative attack and incredibly valuable at lower levels and still useful against enemies without DR.
This would be a fairly reasonable defense, except you can pick up a Gore/Slam/Talons appropriate to your size for 1 point. All of which don't require hands and two of which are impossible for a PC to obtain through other means.
The race guide is just really ridiculous.
Bite is bludgeoning and slashing and piercing all at once, which makes it great against DR.
Slams do take up hands.I'll be the devil's advocate and say a Bite is way better than most natural attacks as it doesn't occupy your hands and you could use a two hander with it.
It's essentially an iterative attack and incredibly valuable at lower levels and still useful against enemies without DR.
This would be a fairly reasonable defense, except you can pick up a Gore/Slam/Talons appropriate to your size for 1 point. All of which don't require hands and two of which are impossible for a PC to obtain through other means.
The race guide is just really ridiculous.
...Huh, really? Does that mean you couldn't use Claws and a Slam in the same full attack?
Weird, I always thought of slam as, well, slamming into someone. Like with your shoulder. I guess I could also see it being a hammer-like swing of a fist.
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I think slams are mostly hands, yeah. Although you could probably come up with a legitimate mythological monster that slams in a different way.
Bites do all damage types and that's a pretty rude surprise for a GM who thought he was being clever by having (for example) skeletons with DR/bludgeoning, only to have two animal companions go wild on them.
So I guess the fact that bites do all three kinds of damage would actually make it more powerful than all the others...
In my campaigns I guess my fix will be to pick it as-is in the rules or to pick one type of damage and have it scale the way all the rest do.
I asked to be enlightened and I was. Thsnks!
AtD
...Huh, really? Does that mean you couldn't use Claws and a Slam in the same full attack?
Weird, I always thought of slam as, well, slamming into someone. Like with your shoulder. I guess I could also see it being a hammer-like swing of a fist.
In a weird twist of fate, I looked through the Bestiary I and II the other day trying to find a creature that did both.
Not one was in either book. Not saying there are none anywhere, but I couldn't find one in those two books.
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Bite is extremely valuable since it hits three types of damage, as well as the fact that most races with it only have it as their only natural attack. This means that they get 1.5x str and power attack damage, which essentially matches a two handed weapon.
This works very well with reach builds, since it allows you to cover a large area with twohanded-ish goodness, and you can give any sneaky mages that try to 5 foot step next to you a nasty surprise.
Of course, a lot of those points also work for the gore attack, which only costs 1 point.
...Huh, really? Does that mean you couldn't use Claws and a Slam in the same full attack?
Weird, I always thought of slam as, well, slamming into someone. Like with your shoulder. I guess I could also see it being a hammer-like swing of a fist.
In a weird twist of fate, I looked through the Bestiary I and II the other day trying to find a creature that did both.
Not one was in either book. Not saying there are none anywhere, but I couldn't find one in those two books.
How incredibly bizarre! I suppose it doesn't matter much since you can't get a slam on a PC without homebrew anyways. Might put a damper on my plan to convince my GM to let me make a Human with the rather op Primitive template in order to increase the viability of the exceptionally up Savage Barbarian, but that's another matter entirely.
My first post on these forums was about the meaning of slam attacks. It seems they are normally fists.
the Reason Bite Costs so much is it bypasses 3 Types of DR and has the side effect of being combineable with a 2hander, and being used as a means to take adjacent AoOs for an Archer or Polearm Build. which are also done by Talons and Gores, which are advanced Traits, and well, the Race Builder is a lousy guide for building races, costs were deliberately fudged to make the core races look balanced and at the same time, make the noncore races look more powerful than they actually were, despite a great many actually being weaker than humans, elves and dwarves outside of niche builds.