Update 1.3 Question

[John Warren]

Okay, I downloaded Update 1.3, and I guess I'm just dense, because I can't figure out what this means:

"Q: Is my spell roll the attack roll for my spells?

A: No, your attack roll for spells uses the same proficiency
modifier (as per page 197), but you still use your Strength
or Dexterity modifier to aim it, unlike your spell rolls, which
apply to all other rolls with your spells, such as when casting
Black Tentacles."

So, can someone tell me which spells a wizard would use Strength to "aim?" The ones where he or she throws something? And Dex when he or she fires a missile of some kind with a spell? And then Int for everything else?

I don't get it. I feel like the designers of this game cannot bear to write rules that are easily understood.

[Simon Dragonar]

In this case a Wizard can choose to use Strength OR Dexterity* for melee spell attack rolls, but only Dexterity for ranged spell attack rolls. Intelligence would still be your Spellcasting Ability Modifier.

*Due to melee spell touch attacks' inherent Finesse trait.

[PossibleCabbage]

Aren't melee touch attacks are finesse so you can use strength or dex to use them, whichever you prefer (i.e. whichever is highest). Ranged attacks use dex whether it's a spell or a crossbow.

[Thebazilly]

John Warren wrote:

So, can someone tell me which spells a wizard would use Strength to "aim?"

A spell involving a melee touch attack only.

John Warren wrote:

And Dex when he or she fires a missile of some kind with a spell?

A spell with a melee or ranged touch attack. Melee touch attacks have the "finesse" trait, so you can choose to use your Dexterity instead of Strength.

John Warren wrote:

And then Int for everything else?

Yep. The spell roll is used for things like Magic Weapon, or illusions making fake attacks, or Black Tentacles. The spellcaster is not making a direct attack, but the spell is performing an action. When the spellcaster makes the attack, Strength or Dexterity is used.

Also of note, melee or ranged touch attacks count as attacks, and the multiple attack penalty applies.

[shroudb]

John Warren wrote:

Okay, I downloaded Update 1.3, and I guess I'm just dense, because I can't figure out what this means:

"Q: Is my spell roll the attack roll for my spells?

A: No, your attack roll for spells uses the same proficiency
modifier (as per page 197), but you still use your Strength
or Dexterity modifier to aim it, unlike your spell rolls, which
apply to all other rolls with your spells, such as when casting
Black Tentacles."

So, can someone tell me which spells a wizard would use Strength to "aim?" The ones where he or she throws something? And Dex when he or she fires a missile of some kind with a spell? And then Int for everything else?

I don't get it. I feel like the designers of this game cannot bear to write rules that are easily understood.

you're mixing two types of seperate things:

spell attacks. and spell rolls.

spell attacks are attacks. So, melee use str (or dex because all melee spell touch attacks are finesse'ed). And ranged spell touch attacks use Dex.

to this str/dex you add your spellcasting proficiency instead of your "unarmed weapon" proficiency.

Spell ROLLS are a different thing altogether.

they are rolls that you use when your spell does/contest something. Like Dispel, or Black tentacles. Those use your spellcasting stat.

[Tectorman]

I think they need to make this distinction clearer, as well. Until right now, I was also thinking a spell attack roll was a spell roll.

[John Warren]

Thebazilly wrote:

John Warren wrote:

So, can someone tell me which spells a wizard would use Strength to "aim?"

A spell involving a melee touch attack only.

Thanks everyone for the responses. This is helpful.

[John Warren]

Tectorman wrote:

I think they need to make this distinction clearer, as well. Until right now, I was also thinking a spell attack roll was a spell roll.

Glad I'm not the only one! I think "spell roll" is a bit too generic to be clear.

[ENHenry]

That, plus D&D5 uses the caster’s key attribute for spell attacks, so players with any D&D5 experience might assume this holds for PF2 also thanks to the ambiguity of the rulebook’s wording without the FAQ.