Hi All,
I'm concerned, after reading the table Wealth By Level and the blurb about it, that my level 10 PC is substantially below the curve. I would like to clarify if the "consumables used" and "valuable items sold at 50%" are considered in the WBL guideline table - IE if I should expect to be below the listed wealth for my level.
I started my druid at level 1 in Rise of the Rune Lords, and am currently level 10. I'm in a party of 5. In reference to the WBL table, I'm in a "standard fantasy game" scenario. The only consumable I've used is a wand of cure light wounds (value 750 GP) and the only magic item I have that I haven't paid for myself is a ring of protection +1. Hero Lab says my wealth (2,700 GP) + gear value (29,300 GP) is 32,000 GP. That takes into account a few minor crafted items at their crafted value, not full price value (I tested this by selling one for 0% and saw my gear value drop by the amount of the item's crafted cost.) So if I take into account the full value of those crafted items, my wealth + gear value is 37,875 GP. The WBL guideline table says at level 10 I should have obtained/used 62,000 GP. Should I expect to be at about 60% of the guideline?
The reason I started researching this is because when I found out that the Stoneskin spell has a material component costing 250 GP, I asked my GM if he'd reduce the cost but he flat out refused and said that the spell should only be cast in dire need. I asked him because at that price I can't imagine casting it semi-regularly and therefore it's really not worth using up one of my precious two level 5 spell slots for something I'm not likely to cast, which will result in it never being prepared for use. So I consider the spell a write-off due to economics. It might be used once or twice if I happen to know a day ahead of time that we're going to be in a fight for our lives, but so far that hasn't happened.
Sorry for the long-winded background description. I just wanted to explain in full the circumstances. Any advice? Thanks in advance!
Is your group regularly struggling with at-level threats? If yes, then you are below the WBL required for your group. If no, then you are not.
You don't get to dictate what your wealth is. That table is a guideline for GMs to use to help make the game fun.
I have seen a wizard cast stone skin maybe once or twice (and it was before a big showdown fight). Lacking 1 spell is not going to make your character vastly underpowered.
I'm concerned, after reading the table Wealth By Level and the blurb about it, that my level 10 PC is substantially below the curve. I would like to clarify if the "consumables used" and "valuable items sold at 50%" are considered in the WBL guideline table - IE if I should expect to be below the listed wealth for my level.
As John Lynch 106 said, the table is a guide for GMs, not a strict requirement. That said, things that you've already used/sold aren't counted; if you have a character at 10th level, you ought to have, right now, approximately 62k---assuming a "standard fantasy" game.
Is the rest of your party all at about the same level of wealth? If so, this probably just indicates that your GM is running a lower-fantasy game than you realized. If not, that's a problem; how do you divvy up loot?
Is the rest of your party all at about the same level of wealth? If so, this probably just indicates that your GM is running a lower-fantasy game than you realized. If not, that's a problem; how do you divvy up loot?
In our game, if the party receive an item that someone can use then that player keeps it. We sell the other items, and split the proceeds 5-ways.
As Cavall said, maybe we missed some important treasure troves earlier in the adventure. I don't know what the other players' wealth is.
Thanks for your input, guys!
OP, there are ways to increase your efficiency. Do you have to buy food/drink? Or refill consumables like arrows? There's cheap magic items that can help with that.
Is the rest of your party all at about the same level of wealth? If so, this probably just indicates that your GM is running a lower-fantasy game than you realized. If not, that's a problem; how do you divvy up loot?In our game, if the party receive an item that someone can use then that player keeps it. We sell the other items, and split the proceeds 5-ways.
Allocating items someone can use to that someone is perfectly reasonable, but unless such things happen to come everyone's way equally, the rest of you should get extra gold to make up for it.
If you need to still carry food and water, spending money on them, I have a magic item that might help.
Also, there's a weapon enchantment that gives you infinite arrows/bolts.
I think your GM does the treasure allotment wrong. WHen a new item appears in a party's loot, everyone should get a share. If you want, you can have your GM private message me, and I can tell him/her how I do it.
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I think your GM does the treasure allotment wrong. WHen a new item appears in a party's loot, everyone should get a share.
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I agree with this: In our groups, we typically total up the total 'resale' value of the treasure and divide by the number of party members. If you want an item, it's value comes out of your share of the treasure (you're still essentially getting it for 'half price' so no complaining).
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I think your GM does the treasure allotment wrong. WHen a new item appears in a party's loot, everyone should get a share.
...I agree with this: In our groups, we typically total up the total 'resale' value of the treasure and divide by the number of party members. If you want an item, it's value comes out of your share of the treasure (you're still essentially getting it for 'half price' so no complaining).
To this I add that one shot items like potions, scrolls, arrows etc are kept out of the sale and distributed among the party members. If you get something out of the party treasure that's too much, you just go negative in gold value and have to make up the difference in time.
Me, I find gold values annoying. I would rather magic items were in platinum, as this would simplify math.
First off I would like to make a show of solidarity with the OP here, as I've been in two separate campaigns where my whole party was heavily under the WBL requirements. At level 5 we lacked magical weapons, armor, rings of protection, or stat bands as a party and it was quite difficult to manage with just cloaks of resistance and masterwork tools. Naturally, the difficulty of our encounters was not altered to account for this fact. It sucked. Being quite behind in WBL at higher level is even more difficult as the big 7 (Cloak, Stat band, stat belt, magic weapon, magic armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor) are considered to be a key part of your kit and counted towards CR calculations.
Unless you are using Automatic Bonus Progression in your campaign you are going to find yourself having a hard time as you rise in level without appropriate gear. On the upside, you are a Druid and they are exceptional in low power games. You have a full spell list, wild shape, and an animal companion to augment your lack of wealth. While life might be hard for you, its much easier than if you were playing a Fighter who has zero ability to augment themselves with additional effects. Is the whole party this far down in wealth? If so, you might want to consider asking your GM about it.
As a GM, I tend to give my PCs more wealth than they should possess in the form of fun and unique items with the understanding that they won't turn around and sell the items I give them. I'm generous enough with gold that folks enjoy the special treats they get and use their earned gold for more practical purchases.
WBL can effect your effective APL. If you are, as a party, at 1/2 WBL then I would say you are probably fighting ate APL - 1. If the wealth is badly distributed, that is a different problem that needs a player solution.
I recall someone saying that consumables are supposed to account for 20% of your wealth, and should be renewed by future loot drops as you adventure.
For Stoneskin, there are two options that are fairly viable:
1) Open slots. Leave an unfilled slot at each spell level. During the day, if you find you need a spell will be needed soon, you can take 10-15 minutes of prayer/meditation/study to fill slots later in the day. This applies to all prepared casters. It gives great versatility, but at the cost of a little time. It is also great for spells that fix things back up, like raise dead, restoration, and so on.
2) Scrolls. For those spells that you don't use all the time, scrolls give you a 1-shot spell. As a consumable, it's use should be reimbursed via loot. It also gives you a lot of versatility with minimal delay. Move action get scroll from storage; Standard action cast (usually); and done.
/cevah
I discretely asked some party members what their wealth is, and of the two responses I got back, one is at 2.2x my wealth and the other is at 1.9x my wealth.
Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I like the system where the sell-able price of the item comes out of the character's share, and allowing a character to go into the negative. I'll try to convince my GM to adopt something like that.
One thing I have noticed in most of my games is that the AP's don't seem to like dropping items for casters. You don't often find a meta magic rod or the like.
This can cause issues in a pure "You get what you can use best" loot distribution system.
The one saving grace is that caster's typically don't need quite as many items. You can play an effective caster with basic protection items and a stat headband.
I like the system where the sell-able price of the item comes out of the character's share, and allowing a character to go into the negative. I'll try to convince my GM to adopt something like that.
You don't really need the GM for this, this is something that normally should be handled between the players.
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I played in Reign of Winter up to level 7 and the treasure drops were just silly. In one encounter a monster whose typical ecology has it living in squalor and filth dropped a Faberge egg and a scrimshaw pipe. My issue though with the couple of AP's I've played in is that the treasure drops aren't always useful to the PCs. Like, what are we going to do with a painting or a ruby cod-piece or something?
Oh wait I know... crafting.
You don't actually need masterwork stuff except weapons and armors. Nothing else says you need masterwork stuff to make it.
You can make a belt of dex +6 out of a piece of old rope if you wanted